Kirby wires for flying people

[paulears]

I'm trying to find a bit about Kirby wires - named after the inventor. The references I did find simply suggest that it's used by some of the major players - but I can't find out much more. I'm tending to believe it relates to flying on two wires, rather than one - so could be the drop to the harness that people like Foys and Hi-fly use - but I'd like to tie it down a little? Anybody know anything more detailed. I did try to find the original 1800's patent but couldn't.

[mac.calder]

If I am understanding my reading correctly, it is referring to the actual flying rig as opposed to a specific line in a flying rig...

 

 

Copy of the Patent

[paulears]

Thanks Mac - interesting. I've been doing a bit of research on another subject and keep coming up with the term Kirby wires - With the patent so old, the basic idea is still in use - and the main companies just developed their own developments. people like Foys then have their own design of compensator?

[librarian28]

My take is this:

In olden days, a stage manager might say 'We are flying a fairy in our panto on a Kirby Wire'. Or, 'We are flying a fairy in our panto with a Kirby rig'. Same meaning, really.

 

The fairy might have a single 'in-view' wire - probably attached at the back of the neck, or 2 wires - probably attached at either hip. I think it would be clumsy to say (in the case of a 2 wire system) 'We have had 2 Kirby Wires installed' but I think it's quite accurate to say 'We are flying a fairy in our panto on 2 Kirby Wires'. Both systems, of course, then have various wires, pullies and ropes installed above the stage to acheive a lift etc. to complete the full rig / installation.

 

I have been told that there was a time when the thin, in-view wires were specially made by George Kirby using 3 twisted strands of copper, bronze and something else. I'm not convinced, but if that's correct, I guess that such a component could lay claim to calling itself a true Kirby wire.

 

There are still a few older telly and film technicians who would just ask us to provide a Kirby wire - and we both know what they mean. Though there would need to be a bit more discussion to discover the exact effect they wanted to acheive.

 

So, I think that a Kirby wire is the thin, in-view, wire - though, of course, to actually provide and install 'a Kirby Wire' there needs to be a certain amount of other kit and experience.

[dbuckley]

Kirby were just the first mob out there to do this, the company being Kirby's Flying Ballets, who are still around, though now taken over following the expiry of the original founders. Thus the term "Kirby" became synonymous with flying, using a "Kirby wire".

 

Peter Foy worked for Kirby's for a while, before starting Flying by Foy. Many of the newer players paid their dues with Foy's. So the lineage of pretty much all performer flying goes back to Kirbys.

[paulears]

Super - that'll do me! Thanks for the help - and the links/info.

P

[Giles Favell]

Kirbys were a nice bunch, and I used to get them in occasionally to do a demonstration to the technical students at RADA. All their rigging and 'flying machines' as they called them used their single strand (so far as I remember) steel flying line - more akin to piano wire than anything else. Their selection of somersault harnesses and hanging harnesses was impressive.Their basic machine was based on the 'drum and shaft' principle, made of machined aluminium castings, so it was operated from a single hemp line - and very effective too -Fortunately - some of the basic principles they set out, have been preserved in the British Standards - including the use of thinner steels to fly people.

[paulminott]

hi ,

 

Kirby was taken over by AFX(UK) Ltd , take a look at http://www.afxuk.com/index.html,

Andy Sutton now runs the company , give hime a call he's a very helpfull chap

[librarian28]

Just reviving this thread - probably just for Paul's interest. We are shortly doing some flying for the C-Beebies pantomime and here is the first line from their first email contact:

 

 

"I work for the BBC in C-Beebies and am in the process of putting quotes together for a potential shoot for one or two people involving 'kirby wires'."

 

 

My point being that the C-Beebies team are all mere youngsters - but, in the wonderful world of telly, the phrase has clearly been passed down to the next generation and is thriving.

[paulears]

ha! Love it. Thanks for that, though - because it had made me wonder. Cheers!

[Shez]

I just encountered a reference to Kirby in the book I'm reading at the moment - thought it might be of interest. The context is the premiere of Peter Pan at the Duke of Yorks's theatre in January 1905.

 

Throughout the play, Peter and the children took to the air through the magic of "fairy dust", flying high over the stage. The Kirby family, long known for lifting dancers in aerial ballet effects and pantomime spectacles, supplied the flying effects, which were traditional and basic, nothing like the Maskelyne family's sophisticated system of fine wires. The Kirbys used leather harnesses hidden beneath the actors' costumes. Attached to the harnesses were thick, black wires, which lifted the children in to the air, swung them from side to side in dramatic, pendulum-like swoops, or tracked them across the stage. In "Peter Pan", the wires were plainly visible against the painted scenery.

[ImagineerTom]

It was a triumph of marketing over substance - Kirby's systems were technically and theatrically the poorest way of making people fly (the Maskelyne system was just one of several competitor systems that were better in almost every way imaginable, Maskelyne had perfected "invisible" wire 3D flight in to the auditorium for example) but Kirby's new how to network and made sure that their name was all over everything they did and ended up building a brand that got them so much work they became the byword for flying.

[musht]

O.T. but one of the Maskelyne dynasty invented the coin operated toilet door leading to the phrase `spend a penny`

 

So what happened to the Maskelyne flying system , did it`s principles get `absorbed` into Kirby`s over the years?

[ImagineerTom]

Not at all, kirby and foy systems converge and evolve from each other but the Maskelyne system, the Goldstone system and several others all went "underground" - this link will take you to an example of the Maskelyne system in use with surprisingly little technological changes from the original design. I think you'll agree it's superior to Kirby's "swing em from a bit of rope" methodology.

 

oh and deKolta's flying system (used to make heavy objects float) evolved in to the ribbon-based flybar systems used in high-end opera houses.

[librarian28]

(Couldn't bite my tongue any longer). The name 'Kirby' did triumph in its marketing and became the byword for theatre flying. I recall that in the 1980's an American company set up here and managed to pull a similar coup.

 

The Maskelyne/Copperfield system is an impressive bit of engineering, but an amateur group doing a show for a week or a panto producer on a budget in a small venue probably couldn't consider paying for a team of six spending a long time clearing a good space in the grid and setting up such a system. They would then need a long time to rehearse a performer & crew in the use (and even longer to focus and plot the lighting sequence). And then, a middle aged fairy or an elderly Scrooge or (sadly) many a chubby teenager wouldn't have the core strength needed to look halfway decent. Plus most directors wouldn't be happy that all of these various characters were needing to wear a black bat-wing jumper. I stand to be corrected, but I'm not even aware of any major West End show which has been willing or able to cope with all the strictures imposed by this very specific magic effect and use it in a 'proper' show.

 

I don't think it's fair to suggest that Kirby's "swing em from a bit of rope". We're all in the hands of the client's budget, the time & facilities available at the venue and ultimately, of course, the director's (lack of) vision and reluctance to take advice. This random, recent advert stands up reasonably against Copperfield (in fact, his kit probably couldn't allow for such a dynamic movement). Plus, there was very little time to work with the performer and they got what they needed in 10 takes from first practise run. I would be gobsmacked if anyone could look at that effect and guess from the result which of the UK flying companies were involved. (It was us, actually, if you were wondering).