Lighting tight acting areas

[vinntec]

Hi guys - I have a show coming up where the stage needs to be split across into three acting areas left to right (touching each other) which will be crossfaded between each other. So I need each area to appear dark when not lit as they might include actor movements/scene changing while action still going on in another. Obviously start with a front and back light for each area, which give good defintion of the area and some modelling but still rather flat. Is it worth also putting very steep - almost toplight - pairs of sidelights onto each area to help the modelling with only a little more spill?

 

Thanks for your thoughts...Peter

[Oldradiohand]

TV sets do this all the time, but achieve the effect with fully flooded fresnels and barn doors (to control the spill) for the key lighting often applied at a steepish angle, Fill lighting tends to be diffuse and frontal and is more difficult to control, backlighting as per key lighting with the option of adding backlight from the floor. Of course, with telly if the camera can't see it it doesn't matter where you put it.......

[david.elsbury]

Profiles are probably better than fresnels/pc's for this, would also suggest you keep everything on stage black, as light bounces and the more there is to reflect such as set, props, the more problems you'll have.

[Jivemaster]

Putting the light where you want it isn't difficult, keeping it there will be! You will need all the help you can get from deep black things to minimise reflections and spill. (Fire a light at a white tablecloth and you have immediately lit the whole stage). Can you get the floor to be black or very dark and any of the walls to have dark panels?

[vinntec]

Thanks for the ideas so far.

 

Set will be painted off white and consists of a central rostrum with a central door and windows either side (area B DS), and two window units eitehr side about 1m upstage of this (areas A and C DS). Floor will be black or dark grey. Actors will go right up to the windows and the rostrum and up the steps and through the central door, so I have to effectively light the set pieces. It is a beautiful set concept - just a real pain for me! Some scenes use one of A, B, or C (which is my problem) others use full width so can have normal cross lighting and fills added.

 

For the areas A, B, C, WYSIWYG says even steep side lighting will put a big footprint into the adjacent area if I want someone on the border to be lit - unless I modify to make them toplights (or only light from onstage into A and C).

 

Oh my head! Peter

[andy_s]

I suggest you investigate dance lighting techniques where there is often a requirement to light bodies in space without lighting the floor.

[jonathanhill]

I suggest you investigate dance lighting techniques where there is often a requirement to light bodies in space without lighting the floor.

That is what I would suggest as well, use side lighting on booms, preferably profiles shuttered off the floor, as your main modelling light.

 

Depending on your FoH position you could also consider a single light for each of the areas.

[vinntec]

I suggest you investigate dance lighting techniques where there is often a requirement to light bodies in space without lighting the floor.

That is what I would suggest as well, use side lighting on booms, preferably profiles shuttered off the floor, as your main modelling light.

 

Depending on your FoH position you could also consider a single light for each of the areas.

Andy/John - the floor is not the problem. The three areas will have furniture and inactive actors in them and possible movement of actors or furniture when one of the other areas is active. Dance lighting from a wing boom will pick them out brilliantly as well as put shadows from the active area onto them. The trouble is I am trying to work out how to make them as dark as possible so that the audience quickly get the idea of looking where the light is. Boom lighting when these tight areas are in use is NBG I am afraid, unless I am being dozy and missing something? Peter

 

As an aside, some time ago "Just Some Block" suggested isolating inactive areas by having the whole stage in a Congo Blue backlight when one area is active? Is this likely to help me here? Peter

[timsabre]

Any sort of cross lighting is out. You can just do front and back, or near-vertical from above. The edges of the area will not be properly lit.

[Just Some Bloke]

As an aside, some time ago "Just Some Block" suggested isolating inactive areas by having the whole stage in a Congo Blue backlight when one area is active? Is this likely to help me here? Peter

 

You nearly got my username right there!

 

Yes, an unlit stage will show spill whereas the congo backlight will soak it up a bit and make it less obvious, It's a trick that does work with any dark blue or red in the backlight (or top if you can't get backlight in).

[andy_s]

I disagree - horizontal crosslight from low angles may well be able to help you if you really need to light people on the edge of the area . it needs to be very specifically focussed, and you need to collaborate with the director and the actors to pin down the blocking very accurately so as to to minimise the distraction from actors in the non-live areas by isolating the action in very narrow upstage/downstage bands. But I wasn't simply refering to crosslighting when I mentioned dance lighting - it was more about the precision - really careful focusing and plotting. For instance, I'd try to avoid washing the stage with too much "broad sweep" light - more lights doing smaller areas so you can highlight the precise position of the actor in the "live" areas and de-emphasise the non-live performers; when the "live" actor moves, very subtly rebalance the state so another light highlights him / her, and the lights in the area they have vacated can be reduced to avoid big splodges of unused light that draw the eye away from the main point of focus. Maybe tightly-focussed specials on the doors and windows rather than a big wash on the whole wall, etc. To achieve this, the director and the actors need to buy into this appproach, and understand that it is as much their problem as yours, as the laws of physics are immuteable. It could be a very long lighting session.... and you may need quite a lot of lights...

 

In fairness, dancers are for the most part good at being very accurate with their blocking, and have the ability to reproduce it precisely for subsequent performances. Actors tend to be less disciplined, but it's no bad thing to try and persuade them to develope some skill in hitting their marks.

 

Of course the easiest way of dealing with catching sight of "non-live" actors is to suggest to the director that he/she blocks the scene changes at the end of scenes rather than in the middle of them. If they want to cut directly from scene to scene, suggest they go and make a movie, and do it in the editing suite...

[vinntec]

I disagree - horizontal crosslight from low angles may well be able to help you if you really need to light people on the edge of the area . it needs to be very specifically focussed, and you need to collaborate with the director and the actors to pin down the blocking very accurately so as to to minimise the distraction from actors in the non-live areas by isolating the action in very narrow upstage/downstage bands. But I wasn't simply refering to crosslighting when I mentioned dance lighting - it was more about the precision - really careful focusing and plotting. For instance, I'd try to avoid washing the stage with too much "broad sweep" light - more lights doing smaller areas so you can highlight the precise position of the actor in the "live" areas and de-emphasise the non-live performers; when the "live" actor moves, very subtly rebalance the state so another light highlights him / her, and the lights in the area they have vacated can be reduced to avoid big splodges of unused light that draw the eye away from the main point of focus. Maybe tightly-focussed specials on the doors and windows rather than a big wash on the whole wall, etc. To achieve this, the director and the actors need to buy into this appproach, and understand that it is as much their problem as yours, as the laws of physics are immuteable. It could be a very long lighting session.... and you may need quite a lot of lights...

 

In fairness, dancers are for the most part good at being very accurate with their blocking, and have the ability to reproduce it precisely for subsequent performances. Actors tend to be less disciplined, but it's no bad thing to try and persuade them to develope some skill in hitting their marks.

 

Of course the easiest way of dealing with catching sight of "non-live" actors is to suggest to the director that he/she blocks the scene changes at the end of scenes rather than in the middle of them. If they want to cut directly from scene to scene, suggest they go and make a movie, and do it in the editing suite...

Hi Andy - thanks for the clarification. We don't get the theatre until get-in and will be rehearsing same day at 7pm. Rehearsals are in a marked up area in our tiny theatre until then so very hard to block 100% accurately until the last minute (by which time all my LX has been rigged and focused). However will see what I can do in the few weeks remaining. Thanks - Peter