Simple question about DI Boxes & problem

[djmatthill]

Hi

Guys I have got a job next week that I need a soloution to if you could give me any advice.

 

A Resturant / Bar have decided that they would like to have a DJ play on a weekend and would like him to plug into their sound system.

 

The system itself is a quality system that I think uses a Bss Soundweb 9088i DSP. (I think from memory)

 

The Soundweb and Amp rack is situated on the 2nd floor and the bar is on the ground floor.

 

So my problem is I need to get a balanced (Ideally Stereo )feed from Downstairs to the rack upstairs.

As I see it I have a few options

 

1) Run x2 Balanced cables from bar to amp rack - Not going to be easy as their is no obvious routes and very thick floors.

 

2) There are (again, I think) a few spare Cat 5 network points downstairs that run to the pack room upstairs.

Could I use some kind of Cat5 / Audio Balum device Like this

 

If I used this option could I take the unbalanced output from the balum straight into the soundweb balanced inputs without issues do you think ?

 

Would I actually need a balum or would cat 5 cable take a line level balaned signal without issues ??

 

Would I need anykind of balancing devices at sounweb end.

 

 

3) Wireless video/audio sender - Is this a stupid idea ???

 

 

 

If I did decide to go with the hardest option and run balanced cables from downstairs to upstairs , what is the best simple device to allow DJs with unbalanced mixers interface with Balanced Line inputs on the Soundweb. Could I use a couple of these ?

 

or would a simple DI box do this ??

 

Sorry for all the questions but I appreciate your thoughts and wisdom on this matter.

 

 

Many Thanks

 

 

Matt

[dwright2104]

if you have a cat5 run, you can easily run a balanced signal up a twisted pair of cat5. you could get a set of these to keep it tidy,

XLRF to rj45

XLRM to rj45

 

and use a stereo DI or two DI's at DJ end to make signal balanced.

[Stuart91]

or would a simple DI box do this ??

 

The output of a DI box will be at mic level, and your Soundweb may not necessarily have the mic preamps necessary to handle this. (I seem to recall it's an optional extra).

 

Thinking laterally, it might be worth investigating upgrading the DJ mixer to one which has balanced outputs. It'd be typical if you spend £50 on the Neutrik adaptors and then the DJ mixer breaks and needs replaced anyways.

 

I certainly wouldn't recommend the wireless sender route, especially in a solidly constructed building. We experimented with them and had thoroughly unsatisfactory results, and from what others have reported here the senders tend to wipe out many wi-fi signals in the vicinity as well.

[dosxuk]

Thoughts on your options:

 

1) Run new cables - best option - you say it will be difficult, but there must already be some cables running, have you tried following them and seeing which route they take? You might end up pleasantly surprised.

2) Use existing CAT5 - you won't need balun's for line level audio over CAT5. Next best option.

3) Wireless video/audio - I'm not going to call it a stupid idea, but no, don't even think about going down this route. If, for some reason, you needed to do it wirelessly, you'd want to be looking at using an IEM kit as a minimum - much more reliable than a consumer AV sender (which will quite happily be wiped out / be made unusable by people on the phone, wireless networks and the staff room microwave).

 

With the unbalanced mixers, a pair / single stereo DI box for unbalanced mixers would be fine, possibly investigate fitting a couple of balancing transformers behind a custom face plate with XLRs and phono/jack inputs, paralleled together after the transformer on the unbalanced inputs. That said, I'd be tempted to try it with passive adaptors and have a listen for issues.

[Oldradiohand]

See the thread on here about balanced line level feeds. As long as the send end is balanced and the amp ins are balanced you can happily use cat 5 cable. The active Alice/Canford boxes are ideal and will solve any -10 +6 type mismatches as they have level tweaks.

[djmatthill]

Thanks to everyone for their replies.

 

I hope to visit site on Wendnesday to investigate further.

 

I have however spoken to the manager there and he informs me that the Soundweb unit was removed and now the venue has a simple Cloud Mixer / Zoner installed.

 

This presents me with another big problem because the Cloud mixer only has line level unbalanced inputs.

 

What is the CHEAPEST way to connect a feed from a balanced mixer ( OUTPUT - DJ Downstairs) to an unbalanced INPUT on a mixer.

 

Am I right thinking that a DI box only outputs a Mic Level signal , I need line level.

[dosxuk]

What is the CHEAPEST way to connect a feed from a balanced mixer ( OUTPUT - DJ Downstairs) to an unbalanced INPUT on a mixer.

 

In this case, I would go for the CAT5 option - with a set of baluns as this will balance the signal for the long bit, unbalancing it at the zoner. Any DJ mixer with balanced outputs should be perfectly fine running with unbalanced outputs into the baluns at that end.

[Oldradiohand]

You can get line level interface boxes or adaptors (built in to an XLR to jack adaptor, for example) for about £50 (box) to £100 (adaptor) per channel.

[mackerr]

What is the CHEAPEST way to connect a feed from a balanced mixer ( OUTPUT - DJ Downstairs) to an unbalanced INPUT on a mixer.

 

In this case, I would go for the CAT5 option - with a set of baluns as this will balance the signal for the long bit, unbalancing it at the zoner. Any DJ mixer with balanced outputs should be perfectly fine running with unbalanced outputs into the baluns at that end.

 

Since it seems the OP already has a CAT5 cable installed, and it will be additional expense and labor to run a pair of balanced audio pairs, I agree. If the CAT5 balun has transformers in it (it should) it will be a good solution and the least expense and labor.

 

Even though there will still be a mismatch in nominal operating level, it can easily be made up in the mixer. Rarely is a level matching device needed unless you have a system where lots of different types of devices might be patched or routed to any given input. In that special case it is good to have the nominal output levels of all the devices matched.

 

Mac

[djmatthill]

Im hoping to go with the CAT5 route if there are available spare network points.

 

If I did have to run dedicated screened cables could I simply use a mixer with Balanced line inputs at the end of the singal chain to feed the cloud Zoner. I can pick up a cheap beringher or budget mixer with balanced line inputs for unser £50. So roughly the same price of a stero balancing transformer box.

(Could I also use an EQ or Comp/limiter with Balanced ins & outs to balance it up ?)

 

 

I also thought that the advantage of using a mixer is that I can tweak levels & EQ etc ????

 

Would this be a good idea ?

 

 

Matt

[jmaudio]

Hi,

 

Ensure that these are CAT5 tie points, rather than beng connectedto an ethernet network. You cannot send audio though switches/hubs. (Though you can though patchbays)

 

Probably not applicable in your situation. But thought I'd mention it in case someone else finds this thread wanting to do the same thing.

 

Cheers,

 

J

[mackerr]

Im hoping to go with the CAT5 route if there are available spare network points.

 

Would this be a good idea ?

 

 

Matt

 

No one has talked about any interfaces that can be used with a network. There are devices that do that, but they will be expensive compared to anything mentioned so far. An RJ45 balun will work with a dedicated Category type cable, but it is still analog audio over twisted pair.

 

Mac

[Oldradiohand]

Im hoping to go with the CAT5 route if there are available spare network points.

 

Would this be a good idea ?

 

 

Matt

 

No one has talked about any interfaces that can be used with a network. There are devices that do that, but they will be expensive compared to anything mentioned so far. An RJ45 balun will work with a dedicated Category type cable, but it is still analog audio over twisted pair.

 

Mac

 

Nothing wrong with balanced (especially transformer balanced) line level analogue audio over twisted pair - it goes miles without any audible degradation and is almost instantaneous.