Design Query...

[Trig]

So I'm designing a show to prem mid March in the Cheltenham Everyman Studio. We've a box set 8' deep and 24' wide, of dirty mortar styled canvas flats. The show is called "silenced" about imprisonment (and conversely freedom...)

 

The designer wants beams of light crossing the set, from holes in the flats, much like bullet holes, although not specifically... Naturally we have no budget!

 

The choices as I see them are: to position a single source away from the flats, and ensure that they are blacked out behind, so that light will only shine through the holes.

Or to mount individual pinspots, narrow beamed birdies or even torches into the flats...

 

The problem with the first idea is that the show is going on tour, and will play in some venues with restricted wing space (we may even have to the size of the rear flat to 16' for some venues!) So that's out... The second solution is either too expensive (at least 10 beams of light is a lot of money in birdies or pinspots) or just plain naff, and I can't see it working.

 

I've already rules out faking it with a gobo over the top of the flats, I haven't yet started to look at types of torches or other small lights...

 

Any ideas much appreciated!

 

Trig

[mikienorth]

Last years WNO touring Ariadne Auf Naxos had a similar effect with holes punched into a cloth and a 5k Fresnel flown above and behind the same cloth to get the holes. Obviousy this caused the holes to light the floor instead of shining straight out, but, similar to the source 4 idea may be the best way to go about it, easily controlled, no need for ASM's to turn on torches, no extra flat construction additions to support pinspots etc. Another way would be fibre optic or Pea Light/LED units, in the style of a star cloth, but that would make very small lights without a real beam to them, but would be no problem on a restricted depth stage.

I am not a designer, but those are my thoughts, others, I am sure will be better than those.

Mike

[david.elsbury]

The designer wants beams of light crossing the set, from holes in the flats, much like bullet holes, although not specifically... Naturally we have no budget!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This means you will also need a hazer, to see the beams.

 

The choices as I see them are: to position a single source away from the flats, and ensure that they are blacked out behind, so that light will only shine through the holes.

Or to mount individual pinspots, narrow beamed birdies or even torches into the flats...

Myself, I would use pinspots, because I don't think birdies would have a narrow enough beam angle. Or if they are all on at once, perhaps ACL (aircraft landing) lights, though they would all need to be connected in series which may not be a viable option. Whatever you use, I would also make a corresponding hole in the flat opposite so you don't get the splotches of light visible... just the beams

 

Hope this helps

David

[vinny baby]

I think by shining any bright focused light source from the back through would work.

 

Light will leak from where ever it can and if you are shining it at a flat, the only natural passage of light is through the holes.

 

you will have to make sure the light cant leak from anywhere else, in the wings ect.

 

you can actully get a very nice effect by pulsing a bright strobe from behind, this gives out very sharp razor white beams, very spunking!! :)

 

dont for get the angle at which you shine your light source will alter the angle at which the light comes out of the holes.

 

so in effect if you move the light around the holes up and down, side to side, you will get movement of light coming from the holes.

 

there is a nice scence in "men in black II" where the gun bot shoots at K and J whilst in the lift, this will give you an idea of the effect using bright discharge sources.

 

peace out, one love

 

vince

[gareth]

Reading your original post, before I got as far down as Mikie's reply, I was thinking of suggesting a 5k, too! (Perhaps I've worked in opera for too long!)

 

If you can get something like a Pollux, with a nice large lens and plenty of 'oomph', sitting a decent way back from your flat-with-holes-in and spotted down as far as is practical for the area you need to cover, you'll get a pretty decent sort of effect as long as you have enough haze floating about to make the light visible.

[Guest lightnix]

Given wing space restrictions at some venues, I'd go the birdie / pinspot route, or maybe look at a string of short nose PAR36 aeros or raylights. The raylights may well work out cheaper in the end, as they will be less prone to blowing (and maybe taking out the whole string in the process). Surely they won't cost that much to hire, especially long term.

[Trig]

-FROM ORIGINAL POSTER-

 

Some good ideas guys, but I really need to impress on you the reality of what we're dealing with here.

 

5k no go, for three reasons, 1) The venue only has 2K dimmers, hiring extras not an option. 2) We have to design for a pottential wing space of under half a metre. 3) we could never afford a 5K in the first place!

 

Everything else sounds good, except that it doesn't necessarily answer the question which is how to do it on no money... like £40 max budget, ready to tour!

 

I'm hoping someone will say "there's these really great torches for £2 from someplace, you could wire them in series onto a birdie transformer..." or something like that.

 

However, I'm also willing to accept that teh effect might just not be achievable within our limitations.

 

Keep 'em coming...

 

Trig

[peter]

For £40 you could probably buy a couple of birdie systems. A couple of dimmable transformers, and some lamp-holders. You could even get away without the Par-16 cans, if you build the lamps into the flattage. You could give the flat some 'thickness' - a second sheet of ply behind the lamp housings. This would give you a blackout behind the lamps. Only problem would be touring the system - you might have to unscrew the flat, remove the lamps, and refit them at the next venue.

 

 

Peter

[Brian]

Have a look at QR111 lamps, they have probably the tighest beam angle, at 4 degrees, of any LV lamp. They are also very shallow. Spill might be an issue so you may need to put a snoot on the front.

 

QR111

 

I'm imagining a tube about 8 inches long with the QR111 at one end, painted black inside and the other end of the tube clipped to the back of the flat with an easy-to-remove-type-thing.

 

If you wnet the birdie route you coule screw birdie gel frames to the back of the flat and use them to clip the birdie on to.

[the kid]

LED's you can get some quite good little led torches not sure of the angle though, and use those there about £2-4 max. Would work if they were on all the time, little more tricky when they need to be on and off.

[Stu]

I have some AR111 lamps myself in my stock (Brian, I'm pretty sure they are AR111s, however I could be wrong knowing your fountain 'o knowledge!), as Brian mentions, the 50w 4º ones.

 

They are super bright for what they are, and are a good tool to a useful effect if used properly. I personally have used them in Par 36 cans (with 12v transformer) so you could get a bar of them going upstage of the flat and focus them all seperately through the holes - really depends how many holes you've got....

 

Cheers

Stu

 

PS. Just thought of something else, it may be cheaper and more convinent to use a 200w (or maybe even larger) 12v transformer. Remember though if your going down this route to wire your transformer up with some chunky cable, say 2.5mm/sq as 200w @ 12v is going to be almost 17A... I did do it with 1.5mm/sq as a last minute fix, but I wouldn't feel happy doing that as a permanent type situation.

[MattH]

AR111's are the way forward - think Pizza Express table bounce light. That's the ones...

 

You can get 100w 8 Deg as well.

 

m

[Guest lightnix]

The MR16 (birdie) route would probably be the cheapest way to go. If you wire them in series, add an "extra" one or two, so that they are being slightly underdriven and therefore less likely to pop. You could make them look "whiter" with some ½ or full CT Blue. If you are running MR16s off a transformer, pay attention to the minimum load rating, otherwise they won't fire up.

 

Most "normal" 5mm white LEDs have beam angles ranging from around 15° to 70°, but wouldn't cut through the ambience of even low level states. To get any kind of poke you'd probably need one or three watt Luxeons, with Fraen optics or some other such focussing / collimating device and driver "pucks" to run them. They'd be very "build-inable", but terribly expensive and you'd need to bear heatsinking in mind (although that's not too difficult).

[Paul J Need]

Either go along the lines of PAR36 or a few par64's behind the set (holes in the set of course)

 

http://www.pauljneed.co.uk/antigone.jpg

 

This image is shows PAR36 pins - plus a bit of haze in the air

[Just Some Bloke]

If you want the easy route which just uses the theatres' own kit it's quite simple:

 

Your option 1: use 1 light

Your option 2: use loads of lights

 

Compromise: use 2 or 3 lights (you can get 4 500w Fs on a 2K dimmer, of course)

 

The venues should already have something and you can decide how many you need at each venue depending on kit and wingspace available.

 

This won't be the most effective route, admittedly, but it requires no budget!