Alternatives to 500w halogen floods

[Stuart91]

Apologies in advance for starting such a mundane topic...

 

We have a yard behind our unit, which we keep vehicles and a container in. We also use it as an overspill for our workshop when we are needing to chop large pieces of wood etc.

 

At the moment it is lit with a motley collection of 500w halogen floods which are activated by PIRs. These were originally put in for security reasons, to generate enough light for usable CCTV images, but this time of year we find it quite handy to have them there when we are working outside after dark.

 

My main annoyances with the halogens is that they are power hungry, but bulb life is pretty poor. They need to be mounted quite high and replacing bulbs is not a particularly trivial task. Plus having PIRs cut in and out when we are working is a pest. I have had a few floodlights fail due to water ingress, they are allegedly IP44 but are relatively exposed. I figure more will go soon so it seems like a good point to replace them all.

 

I'm keen to replace the floods with newer fixtures that are a bit more energy efficient, probably with the PIRs separate to the floodlights, and the facility to have an override for when we are working. So the checklist for my "ideal fixture" is:

 

Equivalent in brightness to at least a 300w halogen fitting

Weatherproof, so probably IP67 as opposed to IP44

Available as standalone lantern without PIR

Not horribly expensive

 

 

I've had a good look around, and haven't spotted anything that ticks all the boxes. I like the look of many of the discharge floods available, but I wouldn't expect they would be happy getting turned on and off every time a fox crosses the yard. And I doubt they would be energy-efficient enough that we can justify leaving them on permanently during the hours of darkness. I've noticed many manufacturers bringing out LED fittings, but I'd expect that the affordable offerings are all pretty weak in the brightness dept. Has anyone had a chance to try them out for themselves?

 

I figure someone on the forum will have tackled similar problems already, keen to hear if there's anything suitable that I'm missing.

[Jamtastic3]

What about discharge floods? These little babies can be quite bright for what they are. Lamps can last between 2000 and 5000 hours.....

 

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Lighting/Commercial+Lighting/Slimline+Metal+Halide+Floodlight+Black+150w/d220/sd2768/p79880

 

Or Sodium lamps which have even longer lamp hours (Up to 25000 hours).....

 

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Lighting/Commercial+Lighting/SON+Floodlight+cw+Ignitor+250w/d220/sd2768/p23287

 

 

Both would require a few minutes of warm up time and can't be turned off and on instantly, so they couldn't really be used with the PIR side of things.

[mutley]

30W LED floodlight

 

50W LED floodlight

 

Fluorescent floodlight

 

Fluorescent lamp module to directly replace halogen lamps in existing floods

 

Twin lamp fluorescent floodlight

 

Metal halide floodlight

 

SON floodlight

 

Take your pick!

[adam2]

Halogen lamps have the advantage of instant starting and are therefore ideal for use with PIRs, But as you point out they have a short life and use a lot of energy.

 

If the anuall hours of use are less than a few hundred hours, I would stick with halogen. Reputable branded lamps should last several years. Replace any suspect fittings, and ensure that you get ones with adjustable timers, set these to maximum which is typicly about 20 minutes.

 

If the anuall hours of use exceed a few hundred, then the energy cost becomes significant and something more efficient is worthwhile.

Discharge lamps take several minutes to warm up and are therefore unsuitable for use with PIRs or if light is wanted quickly for some short term outdoor task.

Discharge lamps are fine if turned on and left on untill outdoor work ceases.

 

Flourescent lamps including compact types, start almost instantly but the light output is poor initialy in cold conditions.

 

LED lamps start instantly and can be switched manually for outdoor work or via PIRs for security purposes.

I have recently purchased LED outdoor floodlights and am very impressed.

They use 30 watts and cost about £75.

I purchased from INTERNATIONAL LAMPS Ltd.

 

I would suggest buying one as a trial, with a view to wider use if they meet your needs.

They are not recomended for DIRECT switching with a PIR but may be controlled by a PIR and a relay or contactor.

If you install a number, I would switch them all via a contactor controlled by a PIR for security lighting, with an overide switch for outdoor work.

[addoaddo]

We had a similar problem at our work. We replaced the halogens with 250W Metal Halide lights. These were set on a light sensor to come on when dark and to go off with a timer at 10pm. This has worked well and does not use a lot of electricity.

[Stuart91]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

 

It's tricky to estimate how much we use the current halogen lights. They're set to stay on for about 3 mins or so at the moment. The PIRs seem reasonably sensitive to movement (e.g. throwing an offcut of wood through the PIR range is enough to set it off) so I imagine they'll trigger quite often from wildlife etc., hence the short dwell times. Even if they are on 6 mins out of every hour, for an average of 8hrs of darkness, this would equate to 292hrs of use per year, not counting when we are working. My hunch is that it will be more than that but it's hard to work out.

 

It may be that with the usage we are getting, the best bet might be to stick with halogen and perhaps use 300w bulbs instead of 500w, but increase the number of fittings so that we still have coverage if a bulb or two fail.

 

From the suggestions people have given, it doesn't look like there is a single solution that will be efficient in the long term, yet be happy getting turned on instantly. (We don't have to use PIRs directly, especially since I have a bunch of contactors lying in my workshop left over from a different job)

 

The area of the yard that we are needing to cover is roughly 10m by 15m. At the moment a couple of 500w halogens is enough to get usable illumination, but the bulbs seem to last weeks rather than months. I suppose from the point of view of CCTV images and us working on stuff it would be better to have more light sources mounted at different angles, even if they are a bit dimmer?

 

 

Adam 2: The LED floods look good, if a little pricey. (Thanks, Mutley, for the eBay link). Have you any idea how they compare brightness-wise to halogens?

 

addoaddo: We have a few metal halide floods in hire stock, and I like them. However I'm not sure how happy they'd be getting turned on and off regularly? We couldn't turn them off at 10pm like you do, because we need them for security purposes. If I were lighting an entranceway or similar this would have been an excellent option.

[Kazeja]

If the current PIR floods are set to come on during movement "in the dark", could you not just keep them and add some manual energy efficient floods (sodium, arc, whatever)?

 

When you need to use the yard, turn on the manual ones and if these are positioned carefully, should fool the PIRs into "daylight" mode and keep them off.

 

When you finish using the yard, turn off the manuals and you have your security lights as before.

 

Perhaps I'm missing something.

 

K??

[mutley]

Adam 2: The LED floods look good, if a little pricey. (Thanks, Mutley, for the eBay link). Have you any idea how they compare brightness-wise to halogens?

 

addoaddo: We have a few metal halide floods in hire stock, and I like them. However I'm not sure how happy they'd be getting turned on and off regularly? We couldn't turn them off at 10pm like you do, because we need them for security purposes. If I were lighting an entranceway or similar this would have been an excellent option.

Have you thought about having a metal halide flood just on a timer or photocell (plus a manual override), and use a relay/contactor to make a PIR-activated flood live when the metal halide is off? That way, the PIR lights won't keep coming on if the metal halide light is on.

 

The sellers seem to suggest that 30W LED ~ 300W halogen, and 50W LED ~ 500W halogen, although based on the usual Chinese exaggerated quotes, it might be worth buying one to try it first, and if it's a not as bright as expected, just use it as a working light on a stand.

[Jivemaster]

http://www.terralec.co.uk/architectural_led_lighting/led_outdoor_flood/30120_p.html

 

Not the only one in the terrorlec list.

 

As a caveat, does your CCTV system require the infra red that tungsten provides so richly? Other forms of lamp may not supply the right amount of IR.

 

CPC have recently been advertising a glass face lantern with two CFL spaces, there are also some ordinary size lanterns that take a 35w spiral CFL -as ever these take over a minute to get to full brightness. This spiral CFL also comes in a nightfighter retrofit style with two connectors for the R7s connector. BUT if the halogen lamp has short life then it's likely that the holder is burned which then kills the next lamp.

[timsabre]

The sellers seem to suggest that 30W LED ~ 300W halogen, and 50W LED ~ 500W halogen, although based on the usual Chinese exaggerated quotes, it might be worth buying one to try it first, and if it's a not as bright as expected, just use it as a working light on a stand.

 

There's no way that a 30W led will be as bright as 300W halogen. Halogen does about 15-20 lumens per watt. LED is currently at about 60 lumens per watt. So you'd need about 75W of LED to equal a 300W halogen.

 

I would replace them with CFL floods (not CFL lamps in the existing floods, they aren't very bright either). Turn up the time on the PIRs to 15 mins.

[david.elsbury]

What about some high output T5 tube style fittings, with reflectors, if you can find them in an outdoor variant?

Benefits of T5 are instant-on and full output from the very start.

 

David

[Jamtastic3]

I'm with Kezeja on this one....

 

Keep your existing set up and just add a metal halide flood or 2, taking a spur from the power that feeds your halogens and adding an indoor/outdoor switch (provided the load is tolerable)

[adam2]

What about some high output T5 tube style fittings, with reflectors, if you can find them in an outdoor variant?

Benefits of T5 are instant-on and full output from the very start.

 

David

 

Although T5 lamps start almost instantly they do not give anything like full output immediatly, especialy in cold conditions as is probable outdoors.

The reduced initial output of T5s is noticable in a cool room and would be worse outdoors.

[Don Allen]

CFL's die due to overheating so putting two inside a 500w housing is going to shorten their lifespan.

 

I have seen 100w LED blocks that have been brighter that a 500w halogen flood, but the switch mode power supply is the expensive part.

 

+1 for Jazega's suggestion of keeping your halogen fllods for PIR security and discharge floods for work lights.

[timsabre]

+1 for Jazega's suggestion of keeping your halogen fllods for PIR security and discharge floods for work lights.

 

My experience of this is that a few low level lights on all night is a much better security deterrent than halogen floods going on and off all the time.

At the premises I used to have, we had halogen flood PIRs all round, but had lots of break ins. We replaced the halogens with 28W 2D fittings on dusk-dawn sensors and have not had a break-in since. I am not sure if this is coincidence... but it's a lot nicer to walk around at night without being alternately dazzled and plunged into darkness.