Crewtart Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I'm a freelancer working mainly in the AV industry with occasional forays into MI. One of the firms I work for has, over the past few years, been steadily increasing the hours on long production days with one PM being the main culprit, often trying to cut back on rates whilst extending the hours. I have just opened a show call-sheet that has me putting in a 22 hour day, and that's not counting travel to and from the venue. This is the longest day this guy has called and I've had enough. This will now see me spending a few hours in my car at a service station, getting some sleep as it will be way too dangerous to drive. It's not the money I'm concerned about; it's my safety and that of other crewmates. I've never experienced these hours to such a degree in MI but AV world seems to be getting worse! Any input? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lee Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Double day rate + accommodation agreed to in writing. Make it financially better to get two people to do the job of two people. 22 hours plus driving to and from venue, sleeping in service stations etc is maddness. It's not the money I'm concerned about; it's my safety and that of other crewmates - well said. Unfortunately some people only care about budgets and this PM is obviously one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiLL Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 flat refusal would be my angle. Especially if you need to drive home afterwards, no budget is worth risking your life over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lee Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Especially if you need to drive home afterwards... hence the requirement of accommodation. I agree that flat refusal is also good option. The one thing that annoys me is that some people just accept the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewtart Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Just found out there's a ruckus with two other 'lancers, too. This time over payment. I'm telling this fella finito. I'll do this once more on my long rate and catch the train home. At the end of the day for the PM, he's getting driven down on manpower and kit costs by the client and has to make money for his production company. But at what expense to his crew's well-being?? Madness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilary Watts Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I'll do this once more on my long rate and catch the train home. It might seem easy for me to say this, as someone outside the industry, but given the long hours AND the fact that you are aware of a disagreement or problems over payment, I would suggest you say 'finito' at this point rather than doing it 'once more'. Once you've done a 22 hour call you will have accepted the principle and it will be harder for you to say 'No' the next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 You should either hire a replacement for half the work and charge accordingly or refuse the work, that is what self-employment is all about, being responsible, choosing your own terms and conditions and being able to provide a replacement. Frankly even considering doing a 22 hour shift is insanity and you have only yourself to blame if you do. There is no way on earth that were an accident occur both the PM and you would not find yourself in breech of HASAWA for inadequate RA, management of H&S at work and possibly more. That is not to say that I have not in emergencies done long shifts, just been prepped well in advance, taking breaks at my own pace and being free to take as much time to recover as required. Driving whilst overtired, even to the service station, is not only unsafe for you but other road users and the innocent bystander. Don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryson Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I never understand this. how much useful work does this PM think you are capable of at the 20-hour mark? A fresh crew could probably do the job in less time, and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderick Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The one thing that annoys me is that some people just accept the situation.Therein lies the problem. Until we can get rid of this whole 'the show must go on' attitude, clients will try to cut costs and force suppliers into unsustainable situations.Working hours is one of those things that keep creeping up to 'save' money. Fatigue is a serious problem, tests have shown that after about 14 hours at work your concentration is similar to a 'blood alcohol level' of 0.08, well over the legal driving limit.Sadly, as the more mature people in this industry take a stance, there is always a young-un that will jump at the opportunity to show how indestructible they are, prior to wrapping themselves around a tree or lamp post. Or worse, injure someone else because they weren't focussed on their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHYoung Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 ive worked those sort of hours in the past and as an employer ive got people to work those hours, however its never ever been planned, its allways been as a result of a f***up, where the idiots building the stage, supplying power causing the truck to be late whatever run so late that you have no option but to work on and get it done etc. Knowing that a job is a 22 hour job, then putting it down on the call sheet is insanity, its also nae use working with people who havent slept for 24hrs, they break things including themselves and others, you may as well get your crew to spend the show in the pub then do the getout, the rsults will be much the same. Im looking forward to the day when someones "long day rate" is taken beyond 24hrs, only 2 to go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peza2010 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I do a few nights like these - perhaps one a month... but heres the BUT, and the big one at that..the load in and set-up time is midday till about 5pm, at this point the night is basically done.we will rip out at about 4am, get in to bed at half 5, but the bit in the middle that counts, is the fact that I can have downtime, sleep if I wish, run out and get food quickly etc etc... im just there to baby sit, if something technical goes to pot, not a build/full on show all the way through... also:- my responsibility during "show time" aren't that big, im just someone who is there that knows how it is setup/ how to fix it if it throws a hissy fit.- the person driving the van will often go home and sleep during the event, creating a fresh pair of hands to help with the get out, and be in a good state to drive- I wont be working the next day, or if I am it would be a late start allowing a proper nights sleep (or as proper as they get in this industryanyway!!) what you are being asked to do is not acceptable, like has been mentioned before, sometimes those shifts have to happen, un planned, but if a call sheet of that timeframe arrived to me, I would be getting on the phone straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Case law already exists from an incident with an agricultural worker being forced to work 20 hour days. He got done for causing death by dangerous driving and his employer got done for corporate manslaughter. It's not a place to go. Sleep first on site, do an intermittent day and sleep again on site may be vaguely safe, but driving to and from a 22 hour day is no good, and you may well get short tempered as you get tired AND much less efficient so you are going to represent yourself badly as well. If you really have to be present for all the hours can you get a driver to drive you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iains Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Okay having looked at the posts on this topic, I challenge anyone to say they haven't done hours like this at some time in the past. It is an unfortunate part of our business that "the show must go on" and most of us strive to follow that adage. There are simply times when long hours happen, that said why did you even attempt to drive after such a shift, you were not only a danger to yourself but others, I would have said to the PM where are you going to put me up for the night/day and if he/she didn't like it or arrange it, adjust my invoice to include the cost, and paid it myself. As for the youngsters in our business thinking themselves immortal, didn't we all when we started, I can remember my first taste of opera coming to my theatre the entire local crew started at 9am on a Tuesday morning and we saw our beds at about 4 am on the Saturday morning. Oh those were the days, also the shows did go on iains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Iain, I think you may wish to reconsider dropping Manchester Opera House in it. The show does NOT have to go on if safety is compromised and excessive hours of work are just that. Yes we all have tales but they are not for open publication on a permanent record in an open forum. Especially under the safety banner, it gets looked at by members including impressionable youngsters and senior HSE inspectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I'm struggling to see why this is budget-related. 1 person working 22 hours or 2 people working 11 hours: they both cost the same but the latter is safer. You could even push the boat out and have 2 people doing 7 hours plus one doing 8! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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