TMA GETOUT - can they cap the hours payed at full rate?

[ollyboustead]

Hi all,

 

Just a question on TMA get out rules, heres the situation:

 

We have produced a large show, the production is transferring, we have been told that they will pay 11 Hours of TMA on the GETOUT then they say we will go onto "our standard contract hours" can they do this wthout consultation?

 

The show is very large and during the in our bosses waved a 16 hour get out carrot in front of us, now it appears they have gone behind everyones backs and made some arrangement for us to go onto normal working hours after 11. Does this not breach the definition of a get-out? I Know its our own production and they want to keep costs down, but at our expense?

 

If anyone has any ideas weather this is above board practice? I think the guys are just upset we have not be consulted.

 

many thanks in advance.

 

olly b

[Shaggy]

I've not seen any mention of this in the TMA/Bectu agreement. I would certainly consult Bectu about this. And it's never above board to tell people they will be getting paid X amount in the future then turn round and say you only want to pay Z, because it's a day ending in Y or similar reason.

[Big Jay]

I have seen this done alot but not followed through!

 

 

 

What most producers will do is say x amount of hours and thats it but thats only so they hope you will get it done in that time! If your house is a Bectu/TMA house then you must abide by the agreement/house agreement and if a company/employee breaks the union agreement then you have a case to take to your union rep.

 

 

 

Definatly take this to the union!

 

 

[mumbles]

Out of interest what show is It that's seriously reckoning on a 16 hour out? That's mammoth even by big tour standards! If however its not a tour but a 1 off then I'd always thought they were excluded from the TMA agreement.

 

Either way I'm not going to get started on TMA rates as this will turn into a rant very quickly, but playing devils advocate this isn't any different to your management agreeing on a buy out for the out surely is it?

[Gareth A]

Size isn't everything. Access and truck turn arounds make a huge difference. Especially if the door is small and can only put 1 truck in the loading zone at a time. !

 

Being both resident and touring, I've seen both sides of this.

 

Be grateful - many venues I tour to no longer even pay TMA. the get outs are just part of their standardised hours and wage. Yes there wage is slightly higher, but not that much.

 

Ive also seen the side there they offer x amount of hours, hoping it would get done - like the buyout, and then standard hours. But then I've also seen the side where they refuse to do the get out after, and do it on the Sunday, thus becoming a sunday call. !

 

 

I believe by definition that the get out is complete when the truck doors are closed. Thus as a CM, or SM, we sign the get out off as complete - the next 5 hours of turning the venue round or doing the pre-rig is at the theatres expense at normal hours (well enhanced due to the time)

 

So - are they thinking the actual get out will be 11 hours, and the rest is doing theatre restoration or turnaround or pre-rigs etc. . . .

 

 

I do have to say, some venues are SOOOO fast even when doing TMA, as they don't care and just want to go home. And then some venues are SOOOOO slow as its a money maker. Usually the fastest venues are the ones who are NOT paid the TMA get out rate and their crews don't mind!

[erroneousblack]

After agreeing a cash Get-Out with the manager of a well known Magician in the 90's, (£35 cash in hand, as opposed to £50 through the books), we got back to the crew room to find he'd left an envelope for each member of crew, containing £3 and a note saying "have a drink on me." Were we happy? Not a lot!

 

Since then always done it by the book, although there're some big pi55 takers out there. After a 3 hour 20 minute get out, (which would pay 4 hours) the touring PM tried to claim it was under 3 because the out doesn't start till you move a flying bar!

[woodbutcher]

 

Snip

 

I believe by definition that the get out is complete when the truck doors are closed. Thus as a CM, or SM, we sign the get out off as complete - the next 5 hours of turning the venue round or doing the pre-rig is at the theatres expense at normal hours (well enhanced due to the time)

/snip

 

 

There is nothing in the TMA agreement about maximum length of pay, however, this may come into effect from 2006 agreement (sorry cant get up to date one at the mo.

 

The TMA and BECTU have jointly agreed that it is in the interests of touring producers and theatre staff for early

discussions to take place between appropriate representatives of both sides to ensure that get-outs of large-scale

musical productions are conducted in an efficient manner with due regard to work patterns and breaks.

The following guidelines shall apply wherever possible:-

1. At least 4 weeks prior to the scheduled get-out, a meeting will take place between the nominated representative

of the producer and the local BECTU steward or staff representative with the object of negotiating the following

matters:-

a) Payments to theatre staff where the get-out is anticipated to last more than 12 hours.

b) Periodic breaks for rest and refreshment.

c) Shift patterns.

2. If such negotiations fail to reach agreement, then within a further 7 days the matters will be referred to further

negotiations involving a senior management representative of the producer and a full-time Union official.

3. In the event that agreement is still not reached, then within a further 7 days the matter will be referred to the

Government’s Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service for assistance as mutually agreed.

In the meantime, any work scheduled will take place pending a final resolution.

 

There is also an element of 'venue reinstatement' which is included in Get Out pay. E.G, replacing any equipment which is de-rigged for the production, which is normally rigged (FOH LX springs to mind). This does not, include, however, rigging a black box, or permanent lighting rig for the next show, that is not done at the present visiting manager's expense.

 

There should always be a positive work ethic when it comes to get outs, just because you have had a long running show in, is no excuse for going slow. In my venue, staff do not work slowly, and if they do, they buck up, or aren't used again. I take pride in my venue and staff, but ultimately, everyone is paid the same on an 'out', and if I'm working my socks off, so should everyone.

This is instilled from their first shift. We understand that new staff have to learn, but they learn quickly!

When I used to tour, it used to wind me up when you would lose half the local staff and found them outside having a crafty fag.

The worst one was in 2003, when the locals were sent out to tip the deads wagon and after half hour the doors were still closed and they were in the pub next door..... this venue shall remain nameless.

Regards,

Dan

[Gareth A]

 

When I used to tour, it used to wind me up when you would lose half the local staff and found them outside having a crafty fag.

The worst one was in 2003, when the locals were sent out to tip the deads wagon and after half hour the doors were still closed and they were in the pub next door..... this venue shall remain nameless.

 

 

Think I been there. !

[woodbutcher]

I think quite a few have ;) !!