Colour Mixing with generics

[Darkness]

Hi All,

 

I'm doing an amdram show in a theatre next week an have started thinking about the lighting, a bit late I know but being voluntary other things do take priority.

 

For this show a large number of different colour washes has been identified, mainly to create different colour chases during the large number of songs. The washes asked for are straw, green, gloomy, pink/rose, blue, orange, red, yellow and a cold wash, we obviously cannot put all these washes up. What I am considering is having a straw, green, red, blue and cold wash and then mixing them to make the other colours, red and green for yellow/orange, blue and red for pink. My question to those with more experience is this likely to work as I've never done it with generic lights, I know it works well with LEDs but how well will it work.

 

Also what colour would you use for a gloomy scene?

 

Thanks

Kevin

[Kevne]

Of course it'll work. What do you think they did in the 100 years or so before LEDs were invented.

 

The colours you are thinking of using seem to be a good bet. You will be able to create a massive variety of different looks using Red, Green and Blue.

 

What you havent mentioned though is anything to do with positions. If you have the option, it would be worth while rigging the colours overhead and putting the cold and the straw washes FOH in a front wash (if this is even an option). If you have a rig plan that you could post then we may be able to give you more help.

 

As for a gloomy scene, it really depends on the the details of the scene and the athmosphere you are trying to create. A good place to start would be a very dim Amber wash with a bit of Red thrown in. Having said that, your best bet really is simply to experiment with the looks once you have everything rigged. It's fine trying to pre-plan what you are going to use for every scene but you will always end up discovering something that looks even better than you hoped, or finding out that what you thought would look good is actually a bit naff.

 

Hope this helps.

[timmeh2]

 

... as I've never done it with generic lights,

 

Hi

 

I'm sure most of BR will splutter into their afternoon tea when they read that comment.

 

LEDs are great for flashing disco colours and rock stuff but when it comes to serious lighting, the old school still wins it hands-down.

 

Get to experimenting with loads of gels and see how they affect each other.

 

Have fun, and try to learn something on the way!

 

All the best

Timmeh

[paulears]

You say you can't put that many washes up, but you don't have to. You've slipped into illumination not design. It's very rare for a show to be lit in solid colour washes to do this - it's more common to have a brighter, happier, sunny wash and a cool, scary, tension building cool state, and then put your special colour into the areas that need it. So gloomy doesn't mean dark and gloomy - it means contrast, so with haze in the air, a steel blue shaft of light, running diagonally, as if coming from the moon/street light/other light source gets balanced against no light at all, and the shadows are what produces the gloomyness. The Director has to arrange blocking to use the parts that are lit, and maybe use the shadows for effect. If you've been asked for lots of separate washes, then the person asking is also thinking wash wash wash, and the result is flat. So really, you need to do a proper 'design'. Look at the scenes, the set, the costume and the action and then have the ability to make the set not dark - so neutral colours, which depending on the show might be pastels in maybe lavender, yellows, and maybe pink and blue. The idea that these get flashed in the musical numbers is also quite unlike musicals which rarely flash full washes. We actually do full wash flashing for music shows, where the requirement is for 3 or 4 colour washes, and it really looks horrible - but these shows are not really designed, they just flash in time with the music. Real shows with costume and scenery just look, in my humble view, very cheesy when lights do this - because you try to set the scene, then wreck it with odd colours.

 

So I'd probably have a couple of general warm cool states doing a wash where it's needed - depending on the set. Then specials in colours to suit each scene's needs. The only time I'd add more solid states would be if you had woodland style scenes with trees when the normal colours wouldn't work too well with the green. Much depends on your equipment, but I really would stop thinking it has to be even washes - this kind of idea came from much earlier when most stages had battens that could only wash.

[greenalien]

The only thing I would add is that you should try to get the lanterns whose colours you are going to mix as close together as possible, to minimise colour fringing around the edges and strange coloured shadows.

[Junior8]

The simple answer has been given yes it can be done but I agree with Paul that it probably shouldn't.

 

Colour mixing is a very old form of lighting and to be honest the modern types of lantern were developed to get away from simply saturating the stage with light from lamps in boxes and a colour in front. To do what I think you have in mind really needs the ability to squirt light pretty indiscriminately all over the place which is what compartment battens and acting area floods were of course designed to do! With any reasonably sized acting area and modern equipment, producing a three or four colour set up is going to be very lantern intensive and you don't say a) how much gear you've got and b) how long you have to set it up. Have you seen the set, if any, and costumes because these too will have an impact on what the lighting looks like and can play havoc with some colours.

 

For short timescale work - like this obviously is - "Warm, cool and specials" is a good rule of thumb. I am a great devotee of open white on check for atmosphere myself.

 

If you decide to go ahead heed the advice in the previous comment and spend as much time as you can on focusing but my advice would be to think again...

[Darkness]

Thanks for the ideas, as you can probably tell im not a lighting designer, I normally end up doing lights because noone else knows anything about them. When I say a gloomy scene I dont mean a gloomy street, I mean the poeple on stage are depressed and I'd like to differentiate between the the straw wash which is likely to be used for most of the show and the scenes where people are depressed.

 

The show has been written in house and while the group likes to cover all areas of performning the focus is heavily on the dancing. Being the majority of the cast are on for most of the show using most of the stage that is why I tend to think washes. I try to make the dances look different hence using chases in the more upbeat numbers, I am considering taking my LED par cans and using them as backlights in some of the numbers, that way there will be more generics available for other effects and the softer colours which LEDs cant do.

 

Colour fringing was the main thing I was worried about, in terms of positions, the stage is roughly 6m x 10m, there are 5 bars on stage, 1 bar at the front of the apron and then another FOH. We have 2 days to set everything up so we aren't short on time, I would like this show to look professional but not being a designer I don't really know how to do that, nothing is set in stone an im always open to new ideas.

[kerry davies]

Things to remember with amateur performers are;

Slightly lower intensity of light makes the audience pay more attention and makes voice projection just a tiny bit less of a problem. If there is any speech that is!

Light is only light in contrast to lack so shadow can convey as much if not more than illumination. (viz Pauls angled beams)

Nobody ever stands where you have selected for specials so make things relatively non-specific in blocking terms. (I had a pro actress that managed to use every single square centimetre of stage for her soliloquy whilst on tour .... except wherever I put her solo.)

For dance think side lighting. Look for photos of dance performances and steal their ideas.

Good old open white is always an option for dance....or any other genre, come to think of it, Junior.

Enjoy it, only you have the script and if something doesn't quite come off a loud groaning from the lighting operator tends to give the game away.

 

Good luck and do not be afraid to "play" with your own ideas, you will learn more than sticking rigidly to anyone elses. There is no "right" or "wrong" merely accepted parameters and then someone like Brecht comes along and overturns the lot of them.

[Just Some Bloke]

Don't forget that mixing LED red and LED green will give you a different colour than mixing gel red and gel green. If you're used to working with LEDs then I'd recommend having a play with gels nice and early because sometimes RGB mixing is not the best way with generics. After all, when it comes to picking starting colours - there's 4 or 5 swatches of colours readily available and plenty more out there if they don't have the ones you want! Try mixing different colours and see what you get, then maybe go back to your thoughts about what you actually "need" and see if maybe your opinions have changed when you've found what else you can do.

 

Colour is great fun: I've been in the business for 30 years and I'm still playing with it and learning new things.

[topsy100]

Thanks for the ideas, as you can probably tell im not a lighting designer, I normally end up doing lights because noone else knows anything about them. When I say a gloomy scene I dont mean a gloomy street, I mean the poeple on stage are depressed and I'd like to differentiate between the the straw wash which is likely to be used for most of the show and the scenes where people are depressed.

 

The show has been written in house and while the group likes to cover all areas of performning the focus is heavily on the dancing. Being the majority of the cast are on for most of the show using most of the stage that is why I tend to think washes. I try to make the dances look different hence using chases in the more upbeat numbers, I am considering taking my LED par cans and using them as backlights in some of the numbers, that way there will be more generics available for other effects and the softer colours which LEDs cant do.

 

Colour fringing was the main thing I was worried about, in terms of positions, the stage is roughly 6m x 10m, there are 5 bars on stage, 1 bar at the front of the apron and then another FOH. We have 2 days to set everything up so we aren't short on time, I would like this show to look professional but not being a designer I don't really know how to do that, nothing is set in stone an im always open to new ideas.

 

if I lived closer I would come and help you out