School Hire - Advice

[LeeStoddart]

HI chris and I'll echo the welcome to the Blue Room.

 

I hope you did the search that was suggested earlier. If you did you probably see that you have had a much more positive response than many who start asking about hiring kit for a battle of the bands event. So I congratulate you on a number of fronts - your wish list is reasonable, your spelling and grammar are good, and you are listening to the suggestions and advice.

 

I'm also sure that you can do this within your budget. Typical price for a parcan for a week is around £6. And a strobe with a remote is about a tenner.

 

I'd go for 6 parcans per side. All of them paired up so you need three chanels each side, you have two availabe each side, to find two more use two of the sockets for the Fresnels overstage. If they have not been paired up then an extra pair of grelcos and some of the school's short TRS will probably let you pair them up.

 

My shopping ist would probably be

12 * Par64 (CP62)

1 * Strobe + cable and remote

2 * stand

2 * T bar (long enough for 6 parcans)

6 * grelco

4 * 15A TRS (length to be able to reach the free sockets

2 * 15A TRS (length to be able to reach the overhead sockets)

1 * 5pin DMX (length to be able to get from backstage to the existing desk position)

 

 

 

Talk to the hire company, explain what you are thinking (in the same way as you have here) and they should be able to give you a reasonably solution.

 

Don't forget that you will need some Gel - if the school doesn't have any then you will probably have to buy some.

 

 

Do check what your total loading is. I am suggesting putting 2K (about 9amps) in each of 6 of your channels. If all 6 of those channels were to end up in the same dimmer pack that would be 54 amps. If the dimmer pack has been installed correctly it should have a 63Amp supply and each dimmer should be fused for 10Amps - so things will be OK. But if it is being run off a lower rated supply you would have a problem.

[bruce]

I don't know which school Chris is talking about, but from the kit list, construction date and location, I'd be prepared to wager that it's the standard "Northern Light Installation" that went into most new Scottish PFI schools over the last few years.

 

If so, it'll be driven from a pair of 24ch Chilli dimmers, with 10A MCBs, and there'll be a Pulsar DMX splitter too. And you'll probably already have blown some of the (rather good but not well protected) speakers :)

 

The ones I've seen also have a "loop through" DMX circuit - in the control room patch panel, there's a short flying 5pin XLR lead, and an additional DMX connector at the side of the stage. The venue I'm most familiar with has this socket stage-right, on the same panel as the audio leads and comms circuits. Plug the flying lead into the socket that your desk normally plugs into, and plug the desk in to the stage socket. That would let you have the desk backstage, although I'm not sure why you'd want to! It's really useful to have the desk in the auditorium when plotting, but not backstage during shows.

 

If that socket isn't there, ask the hire company to throw in a 40m DMX cable.

[ImChrisM]

I don't know which school Chris is talking about, but from the kit list, construction date and location, I'd be prepared to wager that it's the standard "Northern Light Installation" that went into most new Scottish PFI schools over the last few years.

 

If so, it'll be driven from a pair of 24ch Chilli dimmers, with 10A MCBs, and there'll be a Pulsar DMX splitter too. And you'll probably already have blown some of the (rather good but not well protected) speakers :)

 

The ones I've seen also have a "loop through" DMX circuit - in the control room patch panel, there's a short flying 5pin XLR lead, and an additional DMX connector at the side of the stage. The venue I'm most familiar with has this socket stage-right, on the same panel as the audio leads and comms circuits. Plug the flying lead into the socket that your desk normally plugs into, and plug the desk in to the stage socket. That would let you have the desk backstage, although I'm not sure why you'd want to! It's really useful to have the desk in the auditorium when plotting, but not backstage during shows.

 

If that socket isn't there, ask the hire company to throw in a 40m DMX cable.

 

Yep, you're bang on with the Northern Light Installation.

 

I do have a DMX port on a stage box at the side of the stage, but it's the wrong sex, so to speak. The Male end of the DMX lead to the desk plugs into the socket on the stage box named "Lighting Control". These ports are only located FOH in the auditorium. I think a DMX lead is probably the best way to go for that, unless I can use a M to F adapter, somehow the logic inside me says that's not too bright an idea...

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

 

HI chris and I'll echo the welcome to the Blue Room.

 

 

I'd go for 6 parcans per side. All of them paired up so you need three chanels each side, you have two availabe each side, to find two more use two of the sockets for the Fresnels overstage. If they have not been paired up then an extra pair of grelcos and some of the school's short TRS will probably let you pair them up.

 

 

I might have to go for 4 each side, Unforfunately, the school has done away with their ladder, so I'm unable to reach the sockets above the stage. I could go 4 each side and pair them up, meaning I should be alright running off 4 sockets.

 

 

Don't forget that you will need some Gel - if the school doesn't have any then you will probably have to buy some.

 

 

The School has a few rolls of gel (some Ambers, Reds and Blues) so I'm covered on that front, I had to check that one though!

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[bruce]

 

Yep, you're bang on with the Northern Light Installation.

 

I do have a DMX port on a stage box at the side of the stage, but it's the wrong sex, so to speak. The Male end of the DMX lead to the desk plugs into the socket on the stage box named "Lighting Control". These ports are only located FOH in the auditorium. I think a DMX lead is probably the best way to go for that, unless I can use a M to F adapter, somehow the logic inside me says that's not too bright an idea...

 

The DMX female socket at either side of the stage are outputs, coming from a buffer/splitter (an 8-way Pulsar unit loxated near the dimmers in the installations I've seen) - don't mess around with adaptors on that.

 

On the installation I use most frequently, there's an additional 5pin male socket on the stage-right patch panel that connects back to the control room. But there's no guarantee that yours will have that!

 

The "proper" solution would be to use a long DMX cable. Personally, for a one-off show, I'd probably try bodging it with an audio tie line, a couple of 5-3 adaptors, some 3-pin gender changers (If your installation is like the others, there will be plenty of mic circuits from stage to control room, but no spare returns!). It breaks the spec, but would probably work - well enough for a "battle of the bands" event.

[pumphouse]

Just a thought on another approach. How about using some of your budget to hire a scaff tower and re-purpose what you already have, which is not a bad starting position if you can move it about and re-colour it. If you have anything left over, then a few PAR cans would make a good addition but it seems a bit strange to ignore all the stuff you have just because you can't get at it!

 

This would of course be subject to the usual caveats about having a competent person available to erect and climb the tower, which you may or may not be allowed to go up depending on the view of the school. Would need approval from the site managers etc. but would possibly be worth considering.

 

Jason

[Jivemaster]

Let me ask a silly question!

 

Are you hiring because you need the lanterns or because you cannot access the lanterns that you have?

 

Early in the thread you said that you have lights but no "ladder". If this "no access" situation is deliberate to prevent students doing Work at Height then how are you going to rig the hired lights.

 

In all real theatre there is a commercial driver to use what you have and only hire as a LAST resort for things that cannot be found borrower or safely bodged. In a school situation it's vital to work to some real world constraints, ie budget. You may have £100 to spend but how much can you get for that, will it make a difference. Try to do a whole plot using the lanterns that you have before youy decide what you may need/want to add. Try also to consider the power available you could hire lots of goodies but can you power them all?

[ImChrisM]

Let me ask a silly question!

 

Are you hiring because you need the lanterns or because you cannot access the lanterns that you have?

 

Early in the thread you said that you have lights but no "ladder". If this "no access" situation is deliberate to prevent students doing Work at Height then how are you going to rig the hired lights.

 

In all real theatre there is a commercial driver to use what you have and only hire as a LAST resort for things that cannot be found borrower or safely bodged. In a school situation it's vital to work to some real world constraints, ie budget. You may have £100 to spend but how much can you get for that, will it make a difference. Try to do a whole plot using the lanterns that you have before youy decide what you may need/want to add. Try also to consider the power available you could hire lots of goodies but can you power them all?

 

I see your point. I spoke to the school today about access to ladders. From what they can work out, getting a ladder from the installation company takes time, the last time we blew a lamp, it took them six months to come out and fix it, something we couldn't do - No ladders! I'll keep at them about the ladders.

 

I am aware of the power that is available from the existing rig, there are 38 lamps being powered from a dimmer pack with space for 48. There are 500W fresnels, 575W Source 4 Jrs and 500W Codas running off the circuit, I'm sure there will be room for 4-8 500W '56s.

[Ynot]

This strikes me as absolute madness - even on the scale of schools these days.

So you're saying that nowhere in the entire school is there a set of suitable step ladders that can be used (by a caretaker if noone else) to get up to the lanterns above stage?

 

I find that incredulous!

 

How does the caretaker get up to other places to replace domestic type lightbulbs or other bits & bobs?

 

I know that many schools have restrictions on climbing and WaH (some sensible others not so) but not even having a ladder on site, and taking six months to get a lamp replaced is just plain dumb!!

 

 

 

[J Pearce]

Ynot, in a crazy setup a lot of schools now contract this all back out. Utility lighting gets changed at regular intervals before it dies, or there are enough units to cover a few dead lamps.

 

Madness!

Fortunately my place is more sensible and we do an awful lot in house now, keeping costs low and service quality high...

[Ynot]

Yup.

 

I do go in to a couple of local schools and rig lights for them on occasion (charging them of course) because there are no members of staff with any ideas on what to do with rigging/focussing and of course they won't allow students up a ladder...

 

But the schools still have their own ladders (though I did go through an initial hiatus with one school who at first wouldn't allow me to climb them - happy for me to bring in my own (ie our theatre's Zarges). However that lasted only as long as it took the caretaker time to realise I really did know what I was about!!

[rossmck]

I do go in to a couple of local schools and rig lights for them on occasion (charging them of course) because there are no members of staff with any ideas on what to do with rigging/focussing and of course they won't allow students up a ladder...

 

Likewise - I've also been known to do it at schools family members kids attend for free (at least the first time) to show what they CAN do with what they've got - some then pay me to come back ;)

 

But the schools still have their own ladders (though I did go through an initial hiatus with one school who at first wouldn't allow me to climb them - happy for me to bring in my own (ie our theatre's Zarges). However that lasted only as long as it took the caretaker time to realise I really did know what I was about!!

 

Funny, when you turn up with a set of Zarges (or an entire Scaffold tower once) they tend to then accept you know what you're talking about and are somehow less opposed to letting you use their A-frame ;)

[skivvy]

Another suggestion for a hire company is FMX just at Fenwick.

 

On the subject of refocussing lighting rigs, it's pretty much a nono for certain Ayrshire schools. I've toured a few times into a school theatre (with a youth theatre) that was built a few years ago, great building and facilities, totally separate from the school. But you can't touch the lighting.

 

You had to get Northern Light in to do your focus and then pay them again to focus the rig back to how it belonged...

[ImChrisM]

This strikes me as absolute madness - even on the scale of schools these days.

So you're saying that nowhere in the entire school is there a set of suitable step ladders that can be used (by a caretaker if noone else) to get up to the lanterns above stage?

 

I find that incredulous!

 

How does the caretaker get up to other places to replace domestic type lightbulbs or other bits & bobs?

 

I know that many schools have restrictions on climbing and WaH (some sensible others not so) but not even having a ladder on site, and taking six months to get a lamp replaced is just plain dumb!!

 

 

 

 

Tell me about it! The problem with it being a purpose build new build, is that the rig is situated about 25 feet above the stage floor, and sadly an ordinary ladder is just not long enough to reach the fixtures above the stage. I am unable to get access to a ladder long enough in time for the event. As frustrating as it is, there's very little I can do about it, especially as schools are funny about pupils climbing ladders.

 

Another suggestion for a hire company is FMX just at Fenwick.

 

On the subject of refocussing lighting rigs, it's pretty much a nono for certain Ayrshire schools. I've toured a few times into a school theatre (with a youth theatre) that was built a few years ago, great building and facilities, totally separate from the school. But you can't touch the lighting.

 

You had to get Northern Light in to do your focus and then pay them again to focus the rig back to how it belonged...

 

Sounds like Kyle Academy. We can't touch the lights without a ladder, and northern light are a bit funny from what I can gather...

[skivvy]

Sounds like Kyle Academy. We can't touch the lights without a ladder, and northern light are a bit funny from what I can gather...

 

You got it... I used to dread going in there! In the end, I used to go in with some 3w LEDs, a few 500w fresnels, a few profiles, a follow spot and some t-bars. Thankfully I got a good hire rate. :** laughs out loud **:

 

As regards to your music event, I would go down the route of PAR 56's on some t-bars and use whatever in the rig is appropriate at the moment without going through the hassles of securing proper access equipment.

[ImChrisM]

Sounds like Kyle Academy. We can't touch the lights without a ladder, and northern light are a bit funny from what I can gather...

 

You got it... I used to dread going in there! In the end, I used to go in with some 3w LEDs, a few 500w fresnels, a few profiles, a follow spot and some t-bars. Thankfully I got a good hire rate. :** laughs out loud **:

 

As regards to your music event, I would go down the route of PAR 56's on some t-bars and use whatever in the rig is appropriate at the moment without going through the hassles of securing proper access equipment.

 

Yeah, I think I'm going to have to leave the rig, I can get to the main batten in the middle (with the 12 S4s on it) by standing on a chair on a table - Very technical.

 

A few '56s I think is the way it's going it would appear, I'm going to have to speak to the school, see if they can give me an exact figure for some moneys!

 

knowing schools, I'll have gone to all this trouble and they'll turn round and say 'you're getting a tenner, is that enough?'