Temporary Lighting bar

[rob_cheese]

When rigging specials, I often find that the ideal place for a lantern is somewhere in between two lighting bars. I've often wondered whether I could run a length of Scaffolding pole between these two bars, with scaff clamps at each end, to give me the optimum hanging position.

 

I ask, as we had our lighting rig replaced a couple of years ago, which did make use of such arrangements. We were told then that such arrangements using scaffolding clamps, being temporary fittings, were not allowed.

 

As a result, I have the following questions:

 

Was this original advice correct, or just the Sales person trying to get us to buy even more metalwork?

 

If so, would it be OK if using some other kind of fastners? (The Doughty Catalogue seems to be full of similar items!)

 

More generally, where should I be looking for background reading on the rules and regs for such things?

 

Thanks

 

Rob

 

P.S. Mods: Please move to Staging & Rigging if you think it more appropriate.

[Shez]

How are your current lighting bars rigged? If they're counterweight or powered, joining two with a third bar raises a few other issues. If they're permanently fixed, then depending on circumstances, you may be fine. Without actually being there to see, it's difficult to be more specific. In one of my venues, there's a variety of scaff fitted reasonably permanently to provide additional lighting positions so it's not unusual to do such things.

[GridGirl]

My last venue had a fixed grid and we used to do this all the time - to the point where we had a scaff bar the right length for pretty much every possible place you could put one! If your grid has a SWL which you get close to with a full rig of lights you'd have to be careful that the extra weight of the scaff didn't cause an overload (ie don't forget to account for the scaff, thinking "we always hang this many lights and it's fine") but realistically I can't see it being a huge problem. Usual caveats apply though...

[ramdram]

St Marys Town Hall, IoS, has a lighting grid built from the alloy type scaff bars and ladder truss.

 

(It is also a hemp house with the battens interleaved with the fixed bars. I gathered from the tech bloke this arrangement had been professionally installed. Certainly it looked very well constructed. Despite being well constructed however even the lightest loaded battens, with only a cloth, were quite an effort to move and I can see from first hand experience why the folk on BR are not particularly keen on such old fashioned systems. As far as I could tell the lanterns were hanging only from the fixed bars.)

 

You will be pleased to learn that short pieces of scaff bar had been cobbled on, with your proper scaff couplers, wherever needed to hang specials. So it seems that your way to rig specials bars is practiced in other venues. It may be that you were given duff gen...in order to secure a larger sale...but in future it may be a shrewd notion to ask to see where these sort of regs are published.

 

I suppose the only caveat is be aware of how much weight you are hanging and said specials should be positioned so as not to foul any of the moving battens...but you'll know this anyway.

[JDLX]

Are we talking about a fixed grid here or movable (such as counterweight bars)? If the latter I would agree this is a bad idea, but if its a fixed grid I cannot see there being a problem providing you are fixing the extra scaff with a redundancy and safeting lanterns off to the permament grid.

 

Joe

[Seano]

I've often wondered whether I could run a length of Scaffolding pole between these two bars, with scaff clamps at each end, to give me the optimum hanging position.

You can if you're competent to do it (and to assess the ability of the rest of your grid to hold it up - this may or may not be a trivial task depending on the details of what you already have up there). Writing a risk assessment and blah blah blah would be nice too.

 

We were told then that such arrangements using scaffolding clamps, being temporary fittings, were not allowed.

"Not allowed" as in illegal? This is rubbish.

(And anyway, why on earth would you not be allowed to use temporary fittings to rig a temporary bar for your temporary special?)

[JimWebber]

 

"Not allowed" as in illegal? This is rubbish.

(And anyway, why on earth would you not be allowed to use temporary fittings to rig a temporary bar for your temporary special?)

 

As much as I hate to be cynical Seano, but I would bet a fair portion of my next wage packet, that the word "Illegal" was introduced into the conversation...

 

I would bet the other portion that the word was introduced by some Health and Safety type, with only a vague grasp of what is in fact law, and what isn't, and was merely trying to scare the OP off what most normal people would do... (After taking any relevant precautions - Some would say common sense, others would say Risk Assessment)

 

Back when I was on my tools, it was a favourite comment (from people who should really have known better) "You can't use those crimpers, they're illegal" (Read Un-calibrated)

 

(Not that I would ever dream of using un-calibrated crimpers, obviously...)

 

Jim

[kerry davies]

Favourite song number 432? 'It's illegal, it's immoral or it makes you fat.'

 

There could well be a genuine reason but 'not allowed' sounds like a salesmans excuse for not knowing. I would check with the suppliers and discover whether there is a genuine reason such as SWL limitations etc. but the practice is not exactly unheard of.

 

I too hate the 'elf'n'safety' or 'illegal' excuse without any information to support that statement. It is simply laziness and ignorance in many cases.

[Ashley R]

(snip) I cannot see there being a problem providing you are fixing the extra scaff with a redundancy and safeting lanterns off to the permament grid.

 

Just wondering how would you go about provideing the extra redundancy? By Using 2 scaff clamps instead of one? and as you said attaching the safety's for all fixtures off the original grid.

[rob_cheese]

Thanks for your replies.

 

Just to clarify, it is a fixed grid.

 

I can't remember how the "not allowed" comment was phrased - it was a couple of years ago now and I do regret not thinking of challenging it at the time. Suffice to say, it was it was a rep from a well known supplier who then proceeded to quote more than double the price of the other two quotes!

 

Rob

[JDLX]

(snip) I cannot see there being a problem providing you are fixing the extra scaff with a redundancy and safeting lanterns off to the permament grid.

 

Just wondering how would you go about provideing the extra redundancy? By Using 2 scaff clamps instead of one? and as you said attaching the safety's for all fixtures off the original grid.

 

Yep 2 scaff clamps would probably be adequate, or 1 clamp and a safety INTO the scaff bar, would be my understanding of it!

[HOT PHINGAZ]

I have drilled M10 holes about 2 inches from both ends of the pipes and attach safeties here back to the grid... ;)

[TomHoward]

You may not be able to load one side of a bar to cause a rotation though, it depends on what the bar is fixed by or hanging on and whether this was ever considered as part of the design, other whether it will cause problems with the clamps and fixings used. If you don't consider yourself competent to properly assess the options then a 'do it this way, it'll probably be adequate' approach probably isn't for the best.

[Ashley R]

Yep 2 scaff clamps would probably be adequate, or 1 clamp and a safety INTO the scaff bar, would be my understanding of it!

I have drilled M10 holes about 2 inches from both ends of the pipes and attach safeties here back to the grid... ;)

 

Brilliant, thanks for that, thought of puting a hole and then a 50-100kg safety though it last night after I had posted, so might just add that little feature to my existing stock of pipe. (But had always before hand used 2 clamps, and safety'ed off to the original structure) just an extra line of redundancy!

[rob_cheese]

Yep 2 scaff clamps would probably be adequate, or 1 clamp and a safety INTO the scaff bar, would be my understanding of it!

 

To go back to the last part of my original post - is the "it" referred to a set of regulations that I should read up on, or just a sensible way of working that you would risk assess yourself?

 

Thanks

 

Rob