Basic pyro set up

[adamwanstall]

Right heres my question.

 

I've been doing some browsing and come across le maitre products.... is the set up as simple as firing system -> cable -> firing pod -> pyro device?

I dont want all the safety jargon that comes with it all, I just want to know how to set up basic effects like jerbs, waterfalls, flame projectors etc. nothin big and fancy

just for the small stage :)

 

Thanks guys

[Jivemaster]

Ask your pyro insurers! "I dont want all the safety jargon that comes with it all" is the phrase that would impress them most.

 

If your client and venue don't ask for your insurance certificate I'd be very surprised.

[paulears]

Well yes - it is as simple as that to get a system the will work when you press the button - however, most of us would run a mile if we thought the person pressing that button didn't have a good handle on the 'safety jargon' - because if you do it wrong, you will hurt people pretty badly! Having a pyro firing key in your pocket is a big responsibility.

[adamwanstall]

chill out, the reason I asked for no safety jargon is because I know I would get it and take away from my question.... thats the problem with these forums every thinks just because im asking the question im going to go and set it up.... all I want is an understanding of how they are set up.

[Jivemaster]

The electrical process that you suggest is reasonable, BUT the thought processes that make it safe are much more involved. You really need to look at stage pyro pictures for a while and work out how they were done and what made then effective and safe. Then you should go on a basic pyro awareness course. Then you need real experience as an assistant before doing your own work.

[rossmck]

chill out, the reason I asked for no safety jargon is because I know I would get it and take away from my question.... thats the problem with these forums every thinks just because im asking the question im going to go and set it up.... all I want is an understanding of how they are set up.

 

Generally the reason people ask how to set things up, is so they can, also you added "just for the small stage" now, as the methods are the same on any scale of production this does - to me - imply you were wanting to use these techniques on the small stage.

 

The safety concerns are very serious with pyro. The Station nightclub fire is the example that comes to mind, This is what can happen with someone who knows how to set it all up, i.e. they managed to fire the device, but they also managed to kill 100 people in 10 minutes and that was "just for the small stage"

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw6gZupZiuY

 

(edit: I didn't expect it to embed the youtube link inline)

 

In answer to your question as paulears has already said - yes, what you describe (in the simplest form) is how to connect it up but please don't unless you've had proper training or, at the very least, understand the safety issues and carry appropriate insurances. I can guarantee if anyone came anywhere near a venue I was responsible for and used the expression "I don't want all the safety jargon that comes with it all" they wouldn't be firing anything !

 

Most venues will also want to see your insurance and a proper risk assessment, there's a lot more to this than just plugging some wires together.

[adamwanstall]

maybe you didnt understand :/ I DONT WANT TO SET IT UP!!!

[paulears]

Yes we did understand - you know nothing about pyro, you've been Googling and appear to want to start using it, but have made it abundantly clear that you don't wish to know about safety - which presumably you've also Googled and decided you know enough.

 

Ever been near one when an idiot pressed the button? Well I have and have a very low tolerance of people who shouldn't be allowed near pyro - and I suspect I've just added another to the list. Quite a few carriers will not carry pyro devices in their vehicles - I expect they DID want the safety jargon.

 

You covered your rear by saying you only wanted to 'know' about them, not 'use' them - but we don't believe you - sorry!

 

ps You might not like how we do things, and I quite understand that - however, if you don't like our comments - concerned with keeping you safe - facebook might be better place to ask - I'm sure some of your friends will give you excellent advice, and even video you trying your ideas out, ready for youtube. Be nice. Be civil, be accepted - that's our motto.

 

Paul

 

pps You'll be old enough to actually use them in December - why not wait until then?

[adamwanstall]

obviously I cant seem to stress enough, I dont want to use it, I dont want to set it up, I am interested in pyro, but not interested in using it. knowing about safety is my main priority, as I run my own events, and work with children, so I dont just discregard safety tips, in this perticular post I didnt want to know about safety. I wasnt being rude or irresponsible.... I just wanted my post to remain soley on the question in mind. If my question was answered and I felt I wanted to give pyro ago, then yes I would wait till I am 18 and yes I would take my self to a course. And only when I wanted to start handling pyro substances I would look into the safety aspect.

 

 

 

 

Yes we did understand - you know nothing about pyro, you've been Googling and appear to want to start using it, but have made it abundantly clear that you don't wish to know about safety - which presumably you've also Googled and decided you know enough.

 

Ever been near one when an idiot pressed the button? Well I have and have a very low tolerance of people who shouldn't be allowed near pyro - and I suspect I've just added another to the list. Quite a few carriers will not carry pyro devices in their vehicles - I expect they DID want the safety jargon.

 

You covered your rear by saying you only wanted to 'know' about them, not 'use' them - but we don't believe you - sorry!

 

ps You might not like how we do things, and I quite understand that - however, if you don't like our comments - concerned with keeping you safe - facebook might be better place to ask - I'm sure some of your friends will give you excellent advice, and even video you trying your ideas out, ready for youtube. Be nice. Be civil, be accepted - that's our motto.

 

Paul

 

pps You'll be old enough to actually use them in December - why not wait until then?

[Mat]

If you are saying that you would take yourself on a course to learn about pyro set up; why are you posting here? Unfortunately for you, on the pyro course, they will give you all the safety "jargon" and I would presume (having never been on a course myself) will take up a vast majority of the time whilst on the course.

 

You say you are interested in learning about pyro. It's not all about click and boom my friend.

 

You say you run your own events and work with children. Then I presume you sort out all the insurance and health and safety with these events. Also, if you run your own events, being that your not 18, how does the ratio of adults to children work being that you yourself are classed as a child as your under 18 and not CRB checked.

 

....

[paulears]

That's nice and well explained - sorry I was grumpy, but we see people do crazy things so often, we don't take safety lightly here. Sometimes we go on and on - but there's a good reason.

 

The one thing that's never very clear in the Le maitre info is that there are two different pin spacings. So the pods, designed to point at the ceiling cannot have the pods designed to go in the angled pods plugged into them. Things like confetti and glitter are best aimed across a stage - while conventional pyros are designed for upwards use - if you tilt them by making home made angle brackets, they become unpredictable because the powder inside can clump and fall to the bottom.

 

Le Maitre standardised on those weird 4 pin plugs, while many people modified their pods to have 3 pin XLR - in and out, so you can use a standard mic cable to fire one pyro on pins 1 and 2 and another on 1 and 3. Not recommended, but simplifies cabling. I've got a controller and some pod modified like this. To be honest, it's a mistake, not so much because of the old story about somebody accidentally plugging a mic onto the end - but because it's non-standard, so if you need more pods, you're stuck.

 

I hate pyro - after a long time of using them, I still worry when I press the button. Has some idiot just walked close just as I'm about to go, has the person loading it put the right pod in - but most of all, I hate the little green light that says ready to fire, pod ok - and then pressing the button and nothing happening. When you use lots close together, the debris from one might land on another and off that one goes. People moan about the fallout - especially musicians in the pit in panto.

 

I'm quite sure I'm safe, but I'd rather leave pyro to other people. Not a 'fun' product in any way.

[adamwanstall]

I do sort out insurence yes, and CRB thats where you are wrong. because I have one of those... but lets stay on subject

 

If you are saying that you would take yourself on a course to learn about pyro set up; why are you posting here? Unfortunately for you, on the pyro course, they will give you all the safety "jargon" and I would presume (having never been on a course myself) will take up a vast majority of the time whilst on the course.

 

You say you are interested in learning about pyro. It's not all about click and boom my friend.

 

You say you run your own events and work with children. Then I presume you sort out all the insurance and health and safety with these events. Also, if you run your own events, being that your not 18, how does the ratio of adults to children work being that you yourself are classed as a child as your under 18 and not CRB checked.

 

....

 

Thanks for your help and advice Paul, Much appreciated.... And if I do get the chance to play with pyro I will be safe :)

 

 

That's nice and well explained - sorry I was grumpy, but we see people do crazy things so often, we don't take safety lightly here. Sometimes we go on and on - but there's a good reason.

 

The one thing that's never very clear in the Le maitre info is that there are two different pin spacings. So the pods, designed to point at the ceiling cannot have the pods designed to go in the angled pods plugged into them. Things like confetti and glitter are best aimed across a stage - while conventional pyros are designed for upwards use - if you tilt them by making home made angle brackets, they become unpredictable because the powder inside can clump and fall to the bottom.

 

Le Maitre standardised on those weird 4 pin plugs, while many people modified their pods to have 3 pin XLR - in and out, so you can use a standard mic cable to fire one pyro on pins 1 and 2 and another on 1 and 3. Not recommended, but simplifies cabling. I've got a controller and some pod modified like this. To be honest, it's a mistake, not so much because of the old story about somebody accidentally plugging a mic onto the end - but because it's non-standard, so if you need more pods, you're stuck.

 

I hate pyro - after a long time of using them, I still worry when I press the button. Has some idiot just walked close just as I'm about to go, has the person loading it put the right pod in - but most of all, I hate the little green light that says ready to fire, pod ok - and then pressing the button and nothing happening. When you use lots close together, the debris from one might land on another and off that one goes. People moan about the fallout - especially musicians in the pit in panto.

 

I'm quite sure I'm safe, but I'd rather leave pyro to other people. Not a 'fun' product in any way.

[Ynot]

chill out, the reason I asked for no safety jargon is because I know I would get it and take away from my question.... thats the problem with these forums every thinks just because im asking the question im going to go and set it up.... all I want is an understanding of how they are set up.

Sorry - going to jump in here, because you really DON'T seem to appreciate the enormity of what you are asking.

 

YOU said in the OP

Right heres my question.

 

I've been doing some browsing and come across le maitre products.... is the set up as simple as firing system -> cable -> firing pod -> pyro device?

I dont want all the safety jargon that comes with it all, I just want to know how to set up basic effects like jerbs, waterfalls, flame projectors etc. nothin big and fancy

just for the small stage :)

which to me (and obviously others here) suggests that you in fact ARE interested in setting up your own pyro. And as a mod (I think) identified you as not yet being 18, then legally you cannot purchase or operate pyrotechnic effects.

 

And without having taken one of the (excellent) pyro safety courses, OR having spent some considerable time with an experienced pyro tech, I personally wouldn't allow you within a flat mile of my venue to rig and/or set off such effects. For precisely the reasons that Ross points at in the post about the Station Fire. You DID watch that video, yes?

 

Pyro is ONE of the most dangerous effects we use in theatre and is something that should NEVER be taken lightly. Some members here might poo-poo that advice, suggesting that we are going a bit overboard here, but quite bluntly I'd say sod them! SAFETY is foremost in all things, and without proper instruction you are unlikely to be accepted in any theatre I know!

 

So I think it's actually YOU who should 'chill out' and listen to the good advice you're being fed.

 

I do sort out insurence yes,

Er, so your insurance company KNOW that you're an under 18, with NO pyro experience or training, and are happy to cover you to rig and operate then are they?

 

You're sure??

[Bobbsy]

To the OP:

 

Yeah, people piled on about the quality of your question but look at it this way.

 

The actual physical firing of pyro is simple--not much more complex than putting a light bulb in a socket and turning on the switch. The difficult part is doing it safely. Yet you specifically said you don't want to hear about safety.

 

When this is queried, you say you don't want to actually USE pyro, just hear about it--but in your first post you referred to a small stage which sounds very much like a specific requirement to the rest of us. Based on that, what are responders supposed to think?

 

I've worked alongside pyro technicians a great many times in almost 40 years and have picked up a bit from watching them. However, I would never even consider doing it for myself without formal training. As I said, the actual firing is easy. The tricky part IS the safety. You need to know exactly what each effect will do, how far the devices have to be from people and "things" to avoid giving burns and starting fires. You also have to have failsafe techniques to make sure things don't go off in your face as you're setting up. In a great many countries--including Australia where I am right now--it is illegal to use pyro without a specific license. The UK is a bit of an odd one out in that regard.

 

In any case, if you have some kind of theoretical reason for wanting to understand the wiring of pyrotechnics without actually using them, feel free to let us know. However, the physical wiring and operation are totally intertwined with the need for safety, so your original post was off on the wrong foot right from the start.

[kerry davies]

Adam, take note of the profiles of the guys posting above and please don't claim to have been googling for stage pyro as the first website thrown up is that of the Association of Stage Pyrotechnicians. Their cover page tells you about legality of supply to under-18's, about safety courses, about legal storage, about the Approved Codes of Practice and about enforcement officers.

 

What it does not do is explain how to set things off or wire them up, a BR search could tell you more about that.

 

BR takes safety seriously, that is how some of us got to be this old and miserable. Anything anyone posts is looked at from that angle and you will not be the first or last to get the response of; STOP NOW!

Many of us want to die in our beds or, in my case, on the way home from an all-nighter at the age of 89.