Grand Ma in theatre

[benash]

Hi all,

 

Last week I was asked at the last minute to help re-light a show (musical theatre) that I had previously LD'd last year. This time around they are putting on the show in a nightclub and they were having some issues replicating the original lighting I'd done from the DVD. The club is providing a lighting tech and we're stuck using their standard rig (lots of scanners and LED wash movers).

 

Anyway, they run Grand Ma on a PC which I have never had the good fortune to use. When I asked a question in passing about inserting cues, the tech told me that he prefers to have each state saved as an effect rather than in part of a cue stack. From what I could see, running the show basically involved stepping through the effects in sequence. When we got to running through what we'd plotted, it seemed that the transitions from one state to the next were really messy (lights going all over the place, nasty cross fades etc) and from our discussions at that point it sounded like it was going to be more or less impossible to sort it before the show opened.

 

In my limited experience with movers, I've found that you have to be careful to set up cues properly so lights move and fade in predictable and aesthetically pleasing ways but that given some care and attention it's not hard to get a clean looking show.

 

So my questions to you:

 

Is it normal on a Grand MA to use effects rather than cues in a theatrical situation? Could this be a contributing factor to the problems I was having or is this desk just difficult to work with?

Cheers,

Ben

[schooltechie]

I wouldn't consider it normal to use the effects stack to run a show on an MA. The playback faders have the option to run cue stacks, which are the correct form to run a theatrical show in my opinion. I'm unfamiliar with the Grand MA on PC but certainly on the console, they have the option to move in dark. (which when used artistically and correctly can help remove messy moves and fades with moving lights)

 

Hope that helps

Alex

[mac.calder]

onPC is identical to the desk, with software emulating all hardware functions.

 

Effects should only be used for effects.

 

The MA is extremely easy to program as a theatre desk - make a state, hit store, then the button above an executor. To create a stack, when you store over the "top" of an executor, the first time it will ask you what you want to do (overwrite, create second cue, merge etc) and if you choose "Create Second Cue" will create a cue stack and assume anything else stored on top of it is joining the stack. From the executor window you can change all your timings, enable MIB, link cues, auto-progress cues etc. To use the lovely big yellow play button, press select, then the executor button and voila.

[indyld]

 

When I asked a question in passing about inserting cues, the tech told me that he prefers to have each state saved as an effect rather than in part of a cue stack. From what I could see, running the show basically involved stepping through the effects in sequence.

 

In my limited experience with movers, I've found that you have to be careful to set up cues properly so lights move and fade in predictable and aesthetically pleasing ways but that given some care and attention it's not hard to get a clean looking show.

 

So my questions to you:

 

Is it normal on a Grand MA to use effects rather than cues in a theatrical situation? Could this be a contributing factor to the problems I was having or is this desk just difficult to work with?

Cheers,

Ben

 

 

It sounds like the issues are very much with the user rather than the desk, which is perfectly up to the job. Given that the problem is the bit between you and the kit, is there anyway that you could try to integrate a control that you know better? From what you say about your limited past experience with movers, perhaps you don't have a favourite control that would do it. Sounds like it might be a good time to learn the basics of plotting a theatre stack on an MA and taking the "issue" out of the equation.

 

Another alternative is to take in a few bits of kit that you are comfortable with, a generics desk that you like and generally make a nice job of what little you take. Stick with the wrong room with the wrong kit and get the wrong person to program it all sound like a recipe for you having no control over your show. If I were like you and unsure about this, I'd be happier with a single fresnel and a followspot dimmer than trusting my show to a load of ghastly transitions. At least you would keep control of what happened.

[benash]

The MA is extremely easy to program as a theatre desk ... <snip> voila.

 

Sounds like an awesome desk. Must try to get some time on one some day.

 

 

 

 

It sounds like the issues are very much with the user rather than the desk, which is perfectly up to the job. Given that the problem is the bit between you and the kit, is there anyway that you could try to integrate a control that you know better? From what you say about your limited past experience with movers, perhaps you don't have a favourite control that would do it. Sounds like it might be a good time to learn the basics of plotting a theatre stack on an MA and taking the "issue" out of the equation.

 

Another alternative is to take in a few bits of kit that you are comfortable with, a generics desk that you like and generally make a nice job of what little you take. Stick with the wrong room with the wrong kit and get the wrong person to program it all sound like a recipe for you having no control over your show. If I were like you and unsure about this, I'd be happier with a single fresnel and a followspot dimmer than trusting my show to a load of ghastly transitions. At least you would keep control of what happened.

 

Alas, I'm not permitted to touch anything, just stand there and explain what I want to the resident tech. As you say, given the choice, I would sooner not use a light than accept nasty transitions but at the end of the day the producer defines your job description and I hit my boundaries before I could get the show as I would like.

 

In any case, it's all a bit academic as the run has already started, nasty transitions and crossfades and all.

[Smiffy]

Ouch!

 

 

I feel your pain. I've been there and done that with other operators on consoles I don't know well enough to use too.

 

As all of the others have said, I can only reiterate that the MA will run a Theatre Show quite happily with thousands (yes thousands) of fixtures. It's doing so in the West End, and I think on Broadway as we speak, although the fixtures quantities in those cases are in the hundreds.

 

I would strongly advise getting hold of some MA training, and I believe that the MA1 DVD is still available from MA if you ask them nicely (I may be wrong) but certainly well worth a look. You may find that it's not the console for you, and that of course is fine, everybody has their own way of working, and the console is a very important and very personal choice. This is a good thing.

 

The problem in your instance was most certainly between the chair and the console, so don't let that experience drag down your opinion of what (IMO) is one of the best consoles on the market today.

 

Best of luck

 

 

Smiffy