Replacement Desk Suggestions

[jexjexjex]

Hi Troops.

 

Firstly, my apologies for asking this type of question AGAIN, when it’s been asked numerous times before. I have done a search and looked at several of the many previous versions of the “What lighting desk?” question and pulled some information from them, but…

 

My trusty GSX is dying and is at the point where it won’t fire up at all. I think it’s just that the connections internally have come loose, as happened before, but I’m also conscious that it’s about 30 years old and could be heading to the big hire shop in the sky, so I’m on the hunt for as close to a replacement as possible.

 

Essentially, my GSX does everything that I need a desk to do for the level of things that I work at, as I tend to work in smaller venues. The largest has 96 generic dimmers available and recently I’ve been adding some LED kit into the mix. That particular venue has a Strand 300, but the other places I visit have a mixture of all sorts of controls and channel numbers hence I’ve always taken my own desk along, so I can simply plug in and be ready to go.

 

My basic requirements are…

 

1. 
    
   
2. A go button (Not as daft an issue as it sounds!);
   
3. Straightforward access to a reasonable number of subs for busking if needs be;
   
4. The ability to insert point cues (As there’s always an extra blackout required somewhere!);
   
5. Capacity for, say, 100 generics, with the ability to add in “fixtures” such as LED units;
   
6. Basic intelligent lighting capacity would be nice (I tend not to use movers a lot firstly because the GSX isn’t set up for that sort of thing and secondly, because many of my regulars don’t have the additional budget available to hire them;
   
7. A single DMX universe is probably adequate;
   

And lastly…

 

A programming method that’s reasonably “Old School Strand-ish” because I am cantankerous and fairly set in my ways!

 

Essentially, I need another GSX, but I know that’s not going to happen, although if someone had a good 300 to sell then…

 

Much has been written about the MagicQ software, but I think I’m going to go down the road of a “real” desk as against a PC system, although to be fair, I've never actually looked at any of the Chamsys desks before.

 

Much has also been written about Frogs and Jesters. I’m not anti Zero88 in any way, but on the times that I’ve used them, I can’t seem to get my head round the way they think – if that’s the right phrase.

 

I’m quite taken by the ETC Element, but even it seems to do a lot more than I may actually need.

 

Right, I've blethered for long enough. Ladies and gents, I’m open to your thoughts and suggestions.

 

Oh, and if anyone wants to discuss the issue of my GSX not firing up, or offer suggestions on that issue, let me know and I’ll start a separate thread.

[jonhole]

Much has also been written about Frogs and Jesters. I’m not anti Zero88 in any way, but on the times that I’ve used them, I can’t seem to get my head round the way they think – if that’s the right phrase.

 

We can always demo you a Jester TL Xtra if you would like to try this? Although it's part of the Jester family, it's command line driven, so can control 200 generics, and 30 fixtures which can be LEDs or moving heads (or anything else). You may get on better with it?

[callumb]

Much has also been written about Frogs and Jesters. I’m not anti Zero88 in any way, but on the times that I’ve used them, I can’t seem to get my head round the way they think – if that’s the right phrase.

 

 

 

We can always demo you a Jester TL Xtra if you would like to try this? Although it's part of the Jester family, it's command line driven, so can control 200 generics, and 30 fixtures which can be LEDs or moving heads (or anything else). You may get on better with it?

I would steer well away from it. Doest do what it's told, buggy and unreliable. I was going to use one until all the problems started so went back to the trusty fat frog!

[jonhole]

Hi Jiggles,

 

We would be interested to know more about the problems you have experienced?

 

Please send me a PM so we don't steer this topic too far off into the wrong direction!

 

Jon

[ocfe]

ETC Element?

[karl]

If you do try out a Jester TLXtra make sure you give it a really good run for it's money before you decide (good advice for anything actually).

 

We replaced a Strand LBX with a TLXtra. It looked good on paper and after a brief play with the phantom version it seemed perfect for what we wanted. Unfortunately nobody seemed to be able to get along with it when using it in anger. After a fair bit of communication with Zero88 we decided to trade the TLXtra in against an Orb.

 

The basic Jesters are fantastic little desks but they don't seem to have scaled well.

 

I'd suggest you still take a look at the TLXtra, it may be that it would be fine for you.

 

Oh, and the Orb is a great desk - although it may be overkill for what you're after.

[J Pearce]

I'm donning a tin helmet for this, but, you could do a lot worse than a strand palette. Philips aren't really pushing them over here, which is a shame as I think they've turned into a very powerful and flexible desk.

 

A classic palette handles bundles of generics and handfuls of movers with ease and offers all the timing and follow on tweaks that you could do with the 300/500s. Support is all overseas, but there is a UK mobile number for support and support over email has been fantastic.

[rossmck]

I also have a GSX, mine's still working and it's been a great desk :)

 

I now have an Avolites Titan Mobile as well, which is a great little controller but obviously is PC based (used with a touch screen it's as capable as the Tiger Touch) and it's a platform I know so I can transfer between my mobile and the larger desks.

 

If I was looking to replace the GSX I'd probably be looking at the ETC Element (the Ion is a bit too highly priced for my use and the Element is perfectly capable of running movers as long as it's not the bulk of your rig)

 

The Strand "Genius" range was pretty much "standard" for years, and the first programmable console I used was a GSX, later using the 500 and recently used a 300 for the first time in a local venue and felt right at home - recently the ETC desks seem to have become more commonplace in the venues that used to have 500 series - and the Element/Ion/Gio/Eos all share the same OS so your knowledge is transferable between consoles.

 

On a semi-related note you're not miles away from me - if you ever need a GSX (125ch+com+kal) in a pinch or want to try the Titan Mobile to see what you think of the Avo software let me know by PM or something :)

[GridGirl]

I agree with Rossmck - as I was reading your list of "must-haves" I was thinking ETC Element. We switched from Strand (a 520 and a 300) to ETC (Ion and Element) about 18 months ago and it has been a very smooth transition, and the Element is a very nice little desk. Importantly, the GO button is far, far nicer than that of the 300 - enough resistance so you know when you've pressed it and you get a good "click" as you hit it - not like the horrible spongy buttons on the 300!

[IRW]

As a GSX replacement, if you don't want to go as high-spec as the Element, have a look at the ETC SmartFade range. Unfortunately there is no command-line entry, and it will take you a few hours to get your head around it, but it may be suitable for you?

[Brian]

As a GSX replacement, if you don't want to go as high-spec as the Element, have a look at the ETC SmartFade range. Unfortunately there is no command-line entry, and it will take you a few hours to get your head around it, but it may be suitable for you?

I own an SFML and I think it might just be a tad on the 'small' size for Ross's needs. Definitely worth a look though.

[rossmck]

As a GSX replacement, if you don't want to go as high-spec as the Element, have a look at the ETC SmartFade range. Unfortunately there is no command-line entry, and it will take you a few hours to get your head around it, but it may be suitable for you?

I own an SFML and I think it might just be a tad on the 'small' size for Ross's needs. Definitely worth a look though.

 

Just to clarify - I'm not the OP ;) - It's jexjexjex that's looking for a new desk :)

 

And yes, I thought about the SmartFade but personally I'd miss the command-line (and it doesn't handle 100 generics) - that said with the (free) SmartSoft software it's actually a good little desk, if not suitable for the OP in this case imho

[gordontech]

I've got a GSX that can go :)

 

 

 

The zero 88 range are a different way of thinking, but not the wrong way necessarily. I wouldn't personally use them for live events as I find them to fiddly but I know they can do it. Other then that its the cheapest option that does everything you require. I think thats decision made!

 

 

 

 

 

G

[Pattern123]

We are in the same boat, looking for a new desk, we are a School and have a Fat Frog currently. Much as I'm not a fan of the Frog, one of the desks we are considering (Mainly due to the price point - has to be under £2,000) is the Solution, which basically looks the same but does a lot more. I have considered the TLXtra, but think direct control of our generics in a School environment is probably too much to give up on. That's why I'd have to rule out most software based solutions and even the Ion etc. Have considered the SmartfadeML - I do like them, but it's just a bit too American in it's operation for my liking. What worries me about the Solution is the LTP/HTP, is it going to be as ###### as the Frog if you can't change that for movers & LED's? Also it looks to have the same ###### wheels on it as well, which add hours to programming shows with movers. Such a shame Strands offering are so dire these days. I remember installing the first GSX from White Light when I was CLX at the Mill at Sonning Theatre in 1995 - can't believe they are still being used! But something like an updated version with some moving light control would be perfect for us. We simply don't need 90% of the bells and whistles on many of these desks, yet so many of them seem to overlook the Theatre control basics!

[ianknight]

Yes, it's a minefield especially when on a tight budget - I loved my 430 when I was chief at the College Theatre and I fell in love with the Illusion 500 for the small theatre I light for. At the back of my mind at the moment is - "Which desk should they buy to replace the 500?" because it will fail and they will need a similar style control.

 

Part of me screams "It's simple - Orb!" but it's a large desk physically in the XF version and perhaps the ordinary Orb won't allow the flexibility of control that they sometimes need. I've used Jester and done handover training on Jesters and I'm not sure they would get on with it too well. I think Solution offers a nice half way house - Strand have a desk in the offing that sits above the 200 with a decent moving light section but I don't think it has a theatre style e.g. "Go button" playback.

 

Don't get bound up with the MFK's and wheels with the Solution - you can plug a keyboard and mouse (or trackball) in to it which should offer better control over fixtures when you need to move them - at least I always found a trackball to be a better means of control. The software is evolving nicely to an almost Strand methodology so it shoudln't be a big move over to command line control if you wanted that, you can also use an Android device for remote control too so you don't have to buy expensive dedicated remotes.