thethebigman01 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 we are currently having problems with a neutron pro hazer .... it is not producing the smoke that is wanted ... we have striped it down and think it is the little bottle in the body that is causing the problem ... should this little bottle be full or empty please advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirkenstein Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 should this little bottle be full or empty please adviceQuick answer: empty. Long Answer: You've stripped it down _how far_ exactly? What _exactly_ wasn't it doing? No haze at all, patchy haze, spitting? Did start its cleaning cycle, then shutdown after about a minute?Did the tube heat up (you can tell by smell and smoking)? Did it glow? It should get too hot to touch, but shouldn't glow. I assume you have the maintenance manual? It's got quite a long start-up and cleaning time when first switched on to produce haze. Maybe 2 minutes? During which the fan doesn't always run and no fluid is pumped out either. However, the air pump should run continuously during cleaning. You should also hear a characteristic faint pulsing buzzing sound when power is applied to the haze tube to heat it. The air pump is the oblong unit with a rubber base mounted to the side of the fluid compartment. The little bottle should be empty. Of fluid, that is. If it's full of fluid the air pump is probably not working correctly. The whole system should be empty of fluid from the air pump up to the point of the T-junction where the hoses connect to the stainless steel haze tube. Air gets blown in one side of the T, haze fluid delivered on the other. Fluid is delivered by the red solenoid pump that's mounted on the 'shoulder' of the fluid compartment. The fluid is delivered slowly, so drops of fluid are actually 'blown' into the tube by the air pump. This makes a characteristic gurgling/bubbling noise when working. The little bottle is there to stop any stray fluid from flowing back into the air pump. During haze production (after the cleaning cycle finishes) you can hear the air pump run continuously, the fan will run mediumish-fast, and the solenoid pump will pulse maybe once every 2-3 seconds. The solenoid pump makes a slightly different, 'clickier' buzzing sound than the haze tube heater circuitry. If the air pump stops with a click and the fan comes on fast it's probably gone into overheat of some sort. Have a look at the LED on the back. You may see an error code. These are the most heath-robinsonish things I've ever had the displeasure to fix, but I can probably guide you through any possible problems on them. They really really need to be run on neutron star fluid. Nothing else. Maybe deionized water for cleaning is OK. The air pump can get clogged with dust and fluid. It can be serviced quite easily but the parts are fiddly (teensy rubber flapper valves about 2x3mm in size). The pump is nothing other than an old tetra whisper aquarium pump rewound for 12v rather than 240v. I think you can use the tetra spare parts kits, but I can't remember for which of the series. The air pump should come on during the initial cleaning cycle. If you can't hear air hissing out of the haze tube then something is wrong. Other Possible problems: Lots, basically. The usual problems cause the hazer to stop during its initial turn-on/cleaning cycle and start blinking an error code on the LED on the back. I can probably tell you what each of the codes means, if that's really what's happening. If you don't have it, you could ask for the maintenance manual from Le Maitre. The haze tube can get clogged. There should be a thin bit of wire/tool Le Maitre calls an 'abrasor' and looks a bit like a stretched twist drill stuck under a label in the fluid compartment. If not, you can buy a replacement from Le Maitre, or try your luck with a thin bit of spring steel wire. In either case, you need to shove this in the haze tube and scrape back and forth until the tube is unclogged. Le Maitre even suggest mounting it in an electric drill. Be careful, there's usually a spring in the open end of the haze tube, and you don't want to push this back through the tube and into the t-piece. If the haze tube is old and grotty, you can remove the spring anyway, as its only purpose was to provide a nucleating surface for haze fluid to evaporate on on new, clean haze tubes. The haze tube should have a thermocouple attached to it. The wires should be held in place by a little fibreglass sleeve, and the actual thermocouple junction should be welded to the tube (it looks like two wires just stick out of a small bead directly on the tube). If the wires or junction have fallen off then you need a new tube (nearly £50 these days. grr.). Sometimes he thermocouple develops less visible faults. In this case, tube replacement may also be the only option. The haze tube is heated by high-current pulses of low-voltage (5V?) unfiltered dc directly taken from a high-current winding on the power supply transformer. Various bits of the haze tube circuit can fail, as the current is high (dozens of amperes). The rectifier and FET are the most likely failure candidates. Also, all bits of the heater circuit need to be very clean and tight to ensure low resistance. Contact cleaner (or soaking overnight in ketchup, for the brass parts) and gently sanding down any contacts comes recommended. This applies to the clamp that connects the brown wire to the haze tube, the brass stud connected to the other end of the haze tube, and the various ring terminals attached to this stud and the one holding the FET in place. Of course, the terminal connecting the brown wire to the haze tube shouldn't be over-tightened, as it can crush and obstruct the tube. I've had a case where the solenoid pump contacts had corroded and needed cleaning, resulting in no fluid being delivered. There are certain connections on the control board you can _briefly_ short together to test the pump, but doing it for too long blows the onboard fuse or can fry the pump. I can't remember exactly which ones and will need to look in the manual if we think the fluid pump isn't working. 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Ashley R Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I Just bought an old Neutron XS, and it kind of produces a burning smell during its start up, is this just the old fluid and gunk burning off? About a week ago I fired it up, it was spitting a lot of fluid (I think someone has been sticking the wrong stuff in it) but was producing haze, so switched it off to look at it later. I gave the entire unit a wipe down today and tried starting it up. This time the end of the tube started glowing red hot during its start up (Which I dont think I saw last time), and buy what has been posted above this is bad, and now it wont do anything, the fan starts up, the LED Blinks (Not repeatedly though), but no haze. I just noticed these two little wires kind of hanging loose of the heating tube, from what I gather these are meant to be attached to the tube? (I might have knocked them off when I was wiping the unit downhttp://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) So could I just re attach these two small wires back onto the tube, or do have to buy a whole new one? (Was Also missing the wire cleaning thingo as well, but will be buying that) - Also to anyone In Australia, from where is Neutron fluid available from? As I don't remember seeing anyone displaying it for sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirkenstein Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I just noticed these two little wires kind of hanging loose of the heating tube, from what I gather these are meant to be attached to the tube? (I might have knocked them off when I was wiping the unit downhttp://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) So could I just re attach these two small wires back onto the tube, or do have to buy a whole new one? (Was Also missing the wire cleaning thingo as well, but will be buying that) No, the two wires are a themocouple junction. You can't really reattach them yourself,unless you're very handy with an induction or miniature spot welder. The wires need to be welded to each ther and have a really good thermal contact with the heating tube. I don't think you could try soldering as I'll suspect ordinary solder would melt at the temperatures encountered on the tube. You'll need to buy a new tube at this stage, almost certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley R Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Thank You dirkenstein Had called to local dealer/wholesaler here in Australia, and the guys in the branch confirmed what you have just said, and I bought a new tube (Almost $100!). Although they said they had never heard of, or had seen the tube cleaning abrasor tool thingo, which kind of concerns me, as your meant to clean out the tubes every so often? Also they mentioned that there was a Heating element spring or something inside the tube, which is really delicate? From your post this is just a nuculating surface for brand new tubes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirkenstein Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Had called to local dealer/wholesaler here in Australia, and the guys in the branch confirmed what you have just said, and I bought a new tube (Almost $100!). Yup, £50 here in the UK. Ouch. Worth being careful with them, and keeping not obviously damaged ones, just in case they're good enough to recycle at some point. Although they said they had never heard of, or had seen the tube cleaning abrasor tool thingo, which kind of concerns me, as your meant to clean out the tubes every so often? Yes, but it's not that critical- you can use a piece of steel wire that fits, preferably a flat one or one with some surface structure. Also they mentioned that there was a Heating element spring or something inside the tube, which is really delicate? From your post this is just a nuculating surface for brand new tubes? Yes, it's the nucleating surface. Not to be removed or pushed around until the tube has been 'run in' and has gotten good and grotty. Then if the tube clogs, you need to remove the spring before you use the abrasor, otherwise you'll wind up pushing it back into the t-piece at the end of the tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley R Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 THank you very much, you seem to know more about these machines than the guys at the service bench from the distributer do! - Just wondering how do I get the fan out, as I want to give it a light brush out (I can see the whole thing looks pritty dam fragile), whilst ive got all the covers off. So when I put the unit back in service hopefully it will last a long time, without it needing to come back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirkenstein Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 - Just wondering how do I get the fan out, as I want to give it a light brush out (I can see the whole thing looks pritty dam fragile), whilst ive got all the covers off. So when I put the unit back in service hopefully it will last a long time, without it needing to come back... Not sure, to be honest, as I've never had to take it out. Once you have the side cover off revealing the transformer you should just be able to brush the fan out in place. I know it's easier to take it off to clean, but my memory says its held in place with a circlip or a rivet so is going to be a pain to remove entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishCol Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 That was the best reply I've ever seen, le maitre should staple it to their manual, 5 stars, sticky! I've had to maintain a few of these units and Dirks post covers everything I had to do. Wish he was there for me first time around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley R Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Sticky or add to the Wiki or something? As it is a bloody good thread of posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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