d&bhead Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Hi Guys, Finally registered! Im sure this is a really simple question, but as I am self taught I never learnt the ropes from a veteran! I have been loosing a few events to due to me not being able to put truss in the roof of marquees or venues in general! I just don't have a clue where to start! So I thought id ask a few of you seasoned pro's on here! The Marquees vary all the time, from small clear spans, capri party marquees to standard frame (Never larger than 1500 capacity) So here are my questions 1. Do I get the marquee company to put up the truss and ill attach the lights after by using a cherry picker or scaff tower or worst case; LADDER!? 2. Can I use some pulley system to raise the truss and lamps into the roof? (if so where and what do I attach, and how!) 3. I have seen truss attached to the roof of marquees with steel cable at each end, given the choice would you do it for every bay just to be safe? 4. Are there any courses I can take 5. What is the UK legal requirement for hanging structures (Not lamps) Thanks R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanhill Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 You need to employ the services of someone who does this for a living who has the appropriate knowledge. i.e. a rigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali2580 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I have seen (and I'm sure many others have too) truss been put into marquees many times and it isn't overly complicated but as Jonathan has said - find someone that knows how to for the benefit of yourself and others around you!! If you only know about rigging the lights then stick with that and learn from those that have done it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d&bhead Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 not really an answer to the questions, but thanks for taking the time to reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 You'll find most of the info you need here.This one is handy too. The clamps are pretty easy to source, but the difficult bit is finding out the loading from the marquee hire company. The secret is simply using the right support components and keeping within the point loading figures the marquee people permit you to hang. If you break the ali, it will cost you plenty - but if you tell them you need to hang xKG from their structure, they will say yes or no. Many of the usual techniques can't be used - little point using heavy winch equipment - it wastes so much of your load that's limited already. So if you want a truss, then use the clamps, and suitable fixings for the truss and something simple to rig from - a self supporting ladder is fine unless the ground is really soft or the height a bit silly - but most marquees can have A frame type access quite easily. Getting an unloaded bit of truss up isn't too bad, but then I'm afraid it's usually lots of ladder work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I don't think I would be in a rush to hang anything in a Capri, let alone truss. Even really big clearspans have limited hanging capacity and very limited point-loadings. We use fabricated metal brackets which are suspended along the ridge line from the eave knuckles for our lightweight truss and we never hang anything too heavy. Across the roof beams (eave rails) we have suspended scaff poles bolted in to the 3m spaced holes with (metal)straps to give flexibility and a bit of "drop". Everything is rigged from Zarges and does take time. Biggest bugbear? Not getting enough feeds in before the lining goes in so it is a job best done in conjunction with tent erection not after. Do not take a lot of notice of Cader or Marquee clamps with hundreds of kilos SWL stamped on them, they can take it the tents normally cannot. Don't even think of hanging movers unless the manufacturer, not the marquee company, say you can. Snow has brought a few down this past winter so take account of snow/wind conditions and if in any doubt whatsoever, use ground support or scrub the lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 The reason several posters have said get somebody in, is that by doing so, you'll save yourself, time stress and hassle. With the greatest respect, it isn't really something to be doing with no experience. If nothing else, you may find the other contractors looking at you funny, and giving you a wide birth as they see that you're not up to speed. If you fill in your location, then I'm sure there are people on the board that would be close enough to come and assist you in the planning, hire and installation of the rigging hardware (for a reasonable fee obviously), enabling you learn from them as you work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I don't know a great deal about this, but from last time I was involved in a rig in a (30m clearspan) marquee, the main issues were the roof loading and the floor loading. The first dictating what you can hang and from where, the second dictating whether you do it with a MEWP or a Zarges. We had to do it with a zarges, which meant hauling the truss up with a rope and pulley and I think loading it once the truss was secured in place. In order not to overload the marquee, several of the trusses parallel to the ridge had to cross more bays than where equipment was required, simply to distribute the weight on to more points. Proper liaison with the tent supplier regarding loading points is where you need to start though, and if you don't have experience in rigging truss, get someone who does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 HSWA says (paraphrased) Safe system of work to install a safe rig, and a safe system of work to remove it when needed. LOLER puts lots of details into how to achieve this safe system. Once you have a design the rigging is just a physical job, but getting the design takes a lot of planning. The really big problem with marquees is that few of them have load bearing figures issued, and those that do have very small ratings. While the clips and your rig may be substantially rated expect a marquee to be rated at less than 100kilos! Sadly we have all seen major installs in marquees but also sadly we hear most years about a truss collapse somewhere Wherever you rig you need the load baring rating of the sky hooks you intend to use. OR you go totally ground support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 4. Are there any courses I can takeSpecific to working in marquees/tents, no, I doubt it. But there are rigging courses you can take, and it probably would be a good idea.I'd recommend taking a look at the Total Fabs 3 day course in Brum: clicky, also available in Bolton.There's also something similar you could do in S.Yorks (it isn't really in Wakefield, its about half way between there and Doncaster). You need to employ the services of someone who does this for a living who has the appropriate knowledge. i.e. a rigger.To add a caveat to this advice: the bit of 'appropriate knowledge' you need the most is how much you can actually hang at any given point and on the structure as a whole - which isn't something most riggers will be able to tell you. You still need to get that from the manufacturer of the marquee. LOLER puts lots of details into how to achieve this safe system.It really doesn't you know. It says the job needs to be planned, supervised and carried out in a safe manner by a competent person - and that's pretty much it.Its left up to the 'competent person' in question to flesh out the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d&bhead Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 Thanks for this guys, I knew some good advice would appear in the end! I think the best thing for me to do, is supply the Cader clamps and truss to the marquee company (I assume these connect with Steel cable?) And be there for erection and takedown, bit of a pain, but ill learn quicker that way im sure. After a few goes im sure ill be fully capable of rigging the truss. The main thing not to do is overload the marquee, im fully clued up on FEA and engineering so im not too dumb! (I know things have a limit, less %) ive looked at those courses, I might have to go on one, thanks for posting the link! Cheers for the responses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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