Bobbsy Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I went to see the Australia touring production of "Wicked" in Brisbane last night at the QPAC centre. The show itself was very good...loved the set, staging and lighting. However, as a "noise boy" myself, I had a vague feeling of disquiet about the sound. There was nothing "wrong" with it: no feedback, no missed cues I could hear, every word nice and clear on the front row of the first balcony where we were sitting, but... Everything was on radio mics using unobtrusive booms near the mouth (just the occasional breath pop). FOH was a line array (couldn't see what variety as it was built into the set). This gave a sound that was so clear and so "dry" that it was more like listening to a radio drama than sitting in a theatre. At many times, it was hard to identify which character was speaking since there were no directional clues and there was little or no "theatre ambience", meaning the sound seemed a bit out of character for the size of the room we were in. It just seemed a bit un-natural. Anyone else ever encountered this? On a show not trying to do rock concert levels, I like to hear the actors voices "live" with the reinforcement helping me to hear rather than being everything. This means the natural reverb of the room is always there...and makes the sound match what your eyes are seeing. ...or am I just being a grumpy and fussy old man? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I was not a fan of the sound on Wicked in Melbourne either. It did lack the typical "warmth" of live sound - could have been a studio recording everything was that clear, but it was definitely dry. I know the venue it was in (Her Maj in Melbourne), and it is generally a really intimate sound. That and I felt the orchestra->vocal mix was a little bit out - that is personal preference though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Bob if you 'noticed' the sound something was wrong somewhere it's not just you bring grumpy. It is ludicrous to have the sound of one player coming from everywhere in the house - but far too common. It's all part of a very worrying trend. In January I went to a touring ballet where all the orchestra music stands had mic booms and mics fitted as standard. Apart from the fact that the band was of a size where no hall was going to prove troublesome if we have got to the point where an audience can't be allowed to experience the natural balance and timbre of a musical ensemble without somebody at a sound desk somewhere making adjustments for them we have reached a pretty pass. I treasure the night when I went to see Stepane Grapelli and the Diz Disley Trio and the house PA broke down. For the rest of the evening they sounded superb just as two guitars bass and violin should - up till that point it had been dire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamplighter Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Whilst rehearsing a Panto a couple of years ago the director, very " old school" with no previous experience of radiomics came over to the sound desk and muttered that it sounded more like a radio show than theatre. Taking a step back I concluded, like Bob, that I was taking away the ambiance and flattening the dynamics. Slightly reducing the level, allowing a larger dynamic range and keeping at least one boundary mic open solved the problem. The most interesting observation came from the directors moderately deaf husband who commented that he could still just about follow the show but it was so much nicer before She interfered! There must an object lesson in there, somewhere.Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave SA Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Most of us soundmen are moderately deaf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 When Martin Levan wrote the book on theatre sound, he had many reproducers for cast voice, entirely seperate from the (more conventional) reproducers that were used for the music. The fact there were many voice reproducers meant that actors voices came from about where they were on stage, and when there were two or more actors on stage their voices were physically sperated in space, giving a genuind stereo sound field, and none of the phasing thjat occurs when two heads get close together. Although I've heard several examples of his work, the most astounding theatre sound ever heard was at the (otherwise truly abysmal) "Kiss of the Spider Woman", which was just remarkable, I spent the entire perfomance just marvelling in how "natural" listening to it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramdram Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Not deaf at all, ** laughs out loud **;the sound bods I know just like to play with their kit! Which is fair enough considering they have been at college/work experience for a couple of years. However, some of the younger blokes have yet to distinguish between the praxis of rock concert type sound management to that of live theatre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Even in rock/live events I have had DJ's refuse to play through anything but their antique, noisy kit as L'Acoustics, for one example, was too "clean". So in answer to the OP, yes, it can be "too good". On the subject of deaf humheads, how many of you have regular if any hearing tests? The most common response to "Your hearing is not what it should be." is "I hadn't noticed!" That's the point, you wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 On the subject of deaf humheads, how many of you have regular if any hearing tests? Every year. "Better than average for your age" is the normal comment, though I'm unsure if that means good :unsure: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Last year I managed to split my head open, and as the casualty nurse was examining me, looking in my ears she asked what I did and I told her. Her response on looking in my left ear was "Oh really" and in the right one "Oh maybe!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Not deaf at all, ** laughs out loud **;the sound bods I know just like to play with their kit! Which is fair enough considering they have been at college/work experience for a couple of years. However, some of the younger blokes have yet to distinguish between the praxis of rock concert type sound management to that of live theatre. On this type of show it's not the sound engineer's fault, the director calls the shots and if he wants it to sound like that, you make it sound like that.Personally I much prefer it when you can't tell whether any vocal reinforcement is happening or not, but some directors just want it loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 On the subject of deaf humheads, how many of you have regular if any hearing tests? The most common response to "Your hearing is not what it should be." is "I hadn't noticed!" Every couple of years for me--and I get the "better than average for your age" line as well. I also do non-calibrated tests at home as well (just some frequencies from Audition into decent headphones) and am frequently shocked that I can hear higher frequencies than quite a few iPod addicts in their teens and twenties--I now avoid earbuds like the plague. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisky-zulu Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I also do non-calibrated tests at home as well (just some frequencies from Audition into decent headphones) and am frequently shocked that I can hear higher frequencies than quite a few iPod addicts in their teens and twenties--I now avoid earbuds like the plague. Bob Have to admit I do a similar thing, but use both my overears, and then a pair of Senny IE8s with custom moulds to see if there is any huge noticeable difference - so far there hasn't been. On topic slightly more; I was always told that if you think there is something wrong with the mix, then the chances are there is something wrong with the mix.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I quite like doing the multiple source system to restore location to the sound, and my dissertation explored this area. Most shows where I have the time now have a band rig (generally stacked) and a vocal rig (normally a centre cluster or similar). I think it's important to remember sound is a sensation, and there are many things that feed into those senses. Being artistically sympathetic and even artistically involved is the way to good sound. Pure scientific flat response perfect in/out does not equal perceived good sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Drifing slightly, many artists (or perhaps sound engineers) find modern PAs too clean for vocals, and insert something to dirty up the vocal. I've got a focusrite platinum, which has a gentle overdrive, and an ADA Ampulator, for folks who like that Marshall vocal. Trouble is that these kind of techniques play havoc with GBF... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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