nicola_a Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi Blue Room-ers, A small music theatre company that my friend is associated with made the decision to get in some Chroma-Q Color Web and an ArKaos Media Server for their show. The show isn't for a couple of weeks, but they've made this decision and then realised that they don't have anyone who knows how to use it or anyone who can spare the time to learn. I'm being hired (read: paid in beer by said friend) to be the person to sit down for two days and figure this technology out. I'm a newbie lighting designer but have NEVER had anything at all to do with Media Servers or any kind of LED Array lighting. I'm not even that crash hot with intelligent lights (can do them in small-scale theatre, but couldn't do a rock and roll gig). However, I'm keen to take on this challenge and try and figure it all out. I think they have images/textures that are on video on a computer that they want to transfer onto the Color Web (low resolution, but yeah, not clear on that). Does anyone have any good links or advice on where to start getting my head around this stuff? I've tried Googling a bit but there's not a whole lot out there for people with absolutely no knowledge at all. Just don't know where to start. Thankyou in advance, Nicola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenalien Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 If you happen to use a Chamsys MagicQ lighting desk, it will control both Media servers and LED arrays and will do exactly the kind of video to pixel mapping that you want to achieve. They run an excellent, free two-day training course that covers these aspects of the desk on the second day. If you need more details, go to the Chamsys website.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 LED Arrays can be used as 'displays' for some media servers. You draw out the way the LEDs are laid out in the media server, and it then works out how best to draw your media server image using those LEDs as the pixels. They usually output this using some form of DMX-over-Ethernet (commonly ArtNet or Streaming ACN), which either goes directly into an LED controller or is converted into hard-line DMX using an appropriate Ethernet-to-DMX box. That part is pretty simple. Media Servers are much more complex, and they all have slightly different underlying concepts. Arkaos works by having multiple layers stacked one on top of the other - think multiple sheets of paper or acetate in a stack.These layers can be semi-transparent, have cutouts etc and the image on the sheet can be changed much like a gobo in a moving light. So, two questions:1) Which console are you using to control all this?- You do *not* want to use a generics console. It *must* be an advanced moving light console with maskable/partial palettes and preferably encoders. 2) What do they want to use the ChromaQ Color Web to do?This is the key question that should be asked before you even consider hiring a media server solution. Media servers usually come with some free video, animation and still images, but you will often need to add your own. That is a major task in and of itself. [Edit: I hope there's a lot of beer involved. You'll need it] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bleasdale Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Your taking on the job of "Media Server Programmer" here, I do this as part of my full time job. I wouldn't even think about doing it for beer, let alone for free. Media Servers are complex little creatures, but on the plus side you are pixelmapping. This is usually a fairly easy task, well at least in comparison to the last Media Sever gig (5 servers, HD projection - 9,600 pixels wide). But anyway, I would suggest 2 things... 1) get a console that can run this particular Media Server well. Chamsys, MA and Vector are probably some of the best as they integrate with it. Despite you probably wont network them, as Tomo has already mentioned; there are other features of advanced Moving Light desks that are essential to the successful Programming of a Media Server show. Look at the 3 above desks, ETCs desks, High Ends too. 2) Don't just get training on said products, and hope when you turn up on the day that you can do it. Get training then get as much hands on experience you can before the Programming starts. Speak to the people at the manufacturer, speak to the Trainers, speak to other end users. Ask them what they think about your setup. Make contacts so if your out onsite, you have someone "in the know" you can all when you are stuck. I can guarantee, there will be a moment you want to do something but don't know how. You talked about the content they already have. Find out what format is is in, if it is split up into separate videos, or one massive file. Get it onto some discs or a USB HDD or flashdrive, then (if you can) take it to the training and discuss with the trainer how to import it correctly, and most importantly check it works. If they have full HD content (1920x1080 pixels) and they are using 10x4 panels of colour web - thats only 40x16 pixels or 80x32 if its the higher resolution version, then the HD content won't cover it all. It may not even import to the server if the server is locked to a lower resolution! Content is extremely important, without it - not much you can do. This only offers a small insight. People spend months learning about Media Servers and the associated practices etc. If they have the money for a Media Server and Colour Web - they should hire someone who does this day to day (no offence). Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of lx dad Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Firstly please take serious note of whats been said above - you need a high end lighting console that 'understands' media servers, and you need to know how to program said console well. The personality for one layer of a media server can be as many as 50 - 60 attributes. The minimum number of required layers is usually 4 or more - so make sure you've got the kit to do the job. Is it coming prebuilt for you? Do you know what size or how much web is needed? You need to know how it is built in order to map it properly as Cololrweb can be built and plugged in many different orientations. I think they have images/textures that are on video on a computer that they want to transfer onto the Color Web (low resolution, but yeah, not clear on that).Nicola In general low resolution is good. Content on ColorWeb is not like content on an LED screen , it is very very low res. Simple movements with lots of black in images that are simple colours read best. Complex images can be displayed but the eye and the brain cannot process them into something that it recognises. I have to wonder if the drama group know what this product is actually capable of (or not), what you have seen on TV or in a photograph is not really a fair reflection of the result you get in a live situation What you are attempting is hard and if you want me to start from the very beginning please PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandMA_the_2nd Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I have programmed a lot of colorweb... with son of lx dad in fact. In terms of content make sure it high contrast stuff... the more black in it the better. Full images do not read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicola_a Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi everyone, Thank you all for your very informative posts. I understand that this is a mammoth task. It is a very unprofessional little situation in that it was been hired because "they thought it would be cool" but without anyone who even remotely knows how to make it work. They also don't seem to have an understanding of how mammoth a task it is because they are being very vague with giving me information on content, what it needs to do, how it is being operated etc. The console is an ETC Ion. I'm not an expert, but it by far the desk that I am most familiar with. This is what I just received: "Chroma-Q ColorWeb running through a Datagate MK2 through a network into the ION and into ArKaos Media Master". This makes a bit of sense to me, but not a whole lot. I think one of the biggest things that I'm currently confused about is actually how one goes about hooking up a system like this. I think if I can get an image of how everything fits together in my head I will be able to better use my common sense to troubleshoot, however at the moment I don't even know what I would connect to what and how. I've researched all of the equipment stated above but can't get a definite picture about what needs to happen. I have contacted ArKaos and they recommended speaking to their trainers at the Australian distributors ULA Group, so I'll start doing that sort of thing when I get more information about content. What you are attempting is hard and if you want me to start from the very beginning please PM me. son of lx dad, if you are serious about this offer I will be PM-ing you, however you are dealing with a serious amateur here! Thanks for all your very helpful replies so far. Nicola Hi again all; Just got some more information. They are using Color Web 250, but double hung to 'make it 125'. How does this work when pixel mapping, surely it gets very confusing as it is not all the same panel of LEDs? They are wanting to do pretty much every effect they can throw at it (of course) - video files, still images, LED chase sequences. Just thought I'd add that information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bleasdale Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 The console is an ETC Ion. I'm not an expert, but it by far the desk that I am most familiar with. Well thats a good start. Ion does class as a Moving Light desk. This makes a bit of sense to me, but not a whole lot. I think one of the biggest things that I'm currently confused about is actually how one goes about hooking up a system like this. I think if I can get an image of how everything fits together in my head I will be able to better use my common sense to troubleshoot, however at the moment I don't even know what I would connect to what and how. I've researched all of the equipment stated above but can't get a definite picture about what needs to happen. OK. I would upload a PDF of a "system plan" sort of example, but BR won't do this. Feel free to email me for something "visual". Right, so you have your Ion... First of all you need to patch the Arkaos as a fixture. Because a Media Server usually takes up a large amount of parameters, it is split into a few fixtures. In a basic, basic, configuration you will need to patch 1 Master and 1 Layer. The Layer fixture is were you select media, play modes, effects for the layer, intensity for the layer etc. The Master layer fixture affects ALL layers, so Master intensity of the composite output is in here, keystoning is here etc. Keystoning isnt relevant with colour web, but as a general rule - things done on the master layer affect all layers. So in the Ion patch section. Patch a Master Layer and a Layer. Note they are different, 2 Master layers won't do anything and 2 normal Layers won't do anything. It has to be a Master (fixture 1) and a Layer (fixture 2). Assign them DMX addresses, do it in a block, so fixture 2 is addressed straight after fixture 1. Then assign the same start address in the Arkaos system. It should be patched now, and you should be free to control parameters. I have contacted ArKaos and they recommended speaking to their trainers at the Australian distributors ULA Group, so I'll start doing that sort of thing when I get more information about content. Good. I cannot stress how important that is! :) son of lx dad, if you are serious about this offer I will be PM-ing you, however you are dealing with a serious amateur here! Same offer from me too. Any help required, drop me a line. Just got some more information. They are using Color Web 250, but double hung to 'make it 125'. How does this work when pixel mapping, surely it gets very confusing as it is not all the same panel of LEDs? Double hanging colour web 250, does not make it 125. 1 250 Panel has 16 pixels in it. So if you double hang it, each square meter would now have 32 pixels in it. Colour web 125 has 64 pixels per panel. So you would have to quadruple hang 250, to make it 125 - dont go there. Double hanging is a pain, to be honest if they want 125. Pay for it. If the double hanging isn't done right it will just look rubbish. Avoid if you can! Pixel mapping, you are right, it is abit confusing, either ask Arkaos to make a new fixture for you. So you can import your custom fixture that now has 32 pixels and 2 patch points, or make 2 pixel maps and offset them in real time values if possible. Ask the Arkaos trainer about this. They are wanting to do pretty much every effect they can throw at it (of course) - video files, still images, LED chase sequences. Just an FYI... You can do Video and still images no problem once its all setup and configured. But you couldn't program a chase on the Ion with the individual LEDs patched in. The Colour Web gets all its data from the Arkaos system, so if they wanted an "LED chase" they would have to make it as video content and import it into the Arkaos. There is a way to have control via Ion and Arkaos, it is called Art-Net Merging. BUT this is definitly a "pro" sort of solution and NOT IN ANYWAY SHAPE OR FORM suitable in this situation. Hope this helps :) Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 The console is an ETC Ion. I'm not an expert, but it by far the desk that I am most familiar with. This is what I just received: "Chroma-Q ColorWeb running through a Datagate MK2 through a network into the ION and into ArKaos Media Master".Given that this is low-resolution stuff and they seem to want to control the LEDs as both "media server" and "direct", I'd suggest that they don't hire the Arkaos. Eos and Ion (like quite a few modern consoles) has an (optional but free) built-in pixel-mapping Virtual Media Server that you can use for this - and as the control is then all coming from one place, your overall network is much simpler.- Download link here, you'll need Eos Family 1.9.6 plus the Pixel Mapping Installer. To do it this way the Ion will need to have enough Universes of DMX output to drive the whole array, but it is much simpler as all you'd need to do is turn on ArtNet* in the Ion, connect it and the Datagate to the same 'dumb network switch' and then match Universe numbers - treat the Cat5 as being 'magic string' with several DMX Universes on it. (The switch isn't 100% necessary as you can use a crossover cable, but it's easier to faultfind and configure this way - you'll need to plug in a laptop to configure the Datagate, and it's nice to be able to use an ArtNet viewer application to see the levels 'live') However, if the Ion isn't big enough then running through Arkaos makes sense.The control network gets more complicated and you really don't want to drive any part of the array directly as well as from Arkaos. (While possible, it's much easier to get wrong) You will need the 'dumb network switch', and have all three devices plugged into it. For this your logical control path is as follows: Ion output > Arkaos STOP Arkaos > Datagate > ColorWeb. Keep the two sets of DMX data logically separate - Ion talking to Arkaos on 'small' Universe numbers, while Arkaos talks to datagate on 'big' Universe numbers. - Merging multiple sources across a network is not something you want to do in your first network-based job, particularly when you're working with lots of other kit you've never used before.Keep everything simple - you don't want to be thinking "Where the heck is that level coming from?", and you really, really don't want to risk a situation where the Arkaos output is controlling the Arkaos. That way much frustration lies. *ArtNet happens to be the DMX-over-ethernet protocol that Ion, Datagate and Arkaos have in common. It's turned off by default in Ion as it doesn't play nicely with other things on a network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandMA_the_2nd Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I have double hung before and whilst it does work, this is your first foray into mapping and you will be entering a world of pain if you do... I would also use the server against the inbuilt mapper in the ion. The server will give you much more flexibility in manipulating the content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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