Smiffy Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Hi Guys: Being as I'm looking at this at the moment, and the details in the BECTU thread, I have to say that I am utterly confused. I am looking for PLI, which I'm pretty sure is Public Liability insurance, in order to protect me, and keep my clients happy as it's a stipulation of doing business with them that I have PLI cover. Where I am confused is what PLI actually covers, what it doesn't cover, and whether there are additional policies that I should be looking at to top up my cover and ensure that I'm sufficiently covered for real life rather than just to placate my clientele. Answers on a postcard.... Cheers Smiffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.breeze Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 If you have PLI cover from an independent financial institution I wouldn't worry too much about all the BECTU confusion. There seems to be a misinterpreted clause that seems to say your BECTU PLI is null and void if working with/for people without their own PLI or who do not recognise BECTU. I've been delving into PLI lately (completely unrelated to the BECTU issues) and I would suggest you are better off getting an independent policy. CAREFULLY READ THE SMALL PRINT and check that none of the exclusions effect or are effected by the way you conduct your business. Lots of companies provide lots of different levels of PLI cover for lots of different tradesmen/women most of whom are wholly unrelated to BECTU (which ironically seems to be the source of the confusion!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 It all depends on what you do and it is not about a "mis-interpreted clause". The BECTU insurance is OK as a very basic "third party only" insurance which covers injury and damage to others. What it doesn't do is cover you for when you damage your employers or hired kit. Or your own, just like a car with TP only. If you are in the position where you instruct others in the manner of their work you almost certainly need Employers Liability because injuries and damage they cause may be passed to you through vicarious liability. Whether you need Product Liability is another question as is Indemnity Liability for advice you give, and on and on. Your own personal injury insurance is up to your decision, goods in transit and storage and on and on. The best advice I could give is to decide exactly what you will be doing as work and then talk to Precision Broking or Doodsons or Robertson Taylor or any other reputable broker. Any other advice is simply personal experience because insurance, as BECTU members are discovering, is complex. Funnily enough I've never seen any of the brokers up a ladder or behind a sound desk, they tend to do insuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.breeze Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 It all depends on what you do and it is not about a "mis-interpreted clause". The BECTU insurance is OK as a very basic "third party only" insurance which covers injury and damage to others. What it doesn't do is cover you for when you damage your employers or hired kit. Or your own, just like a car with TP only. If you are in the position where you instruct others in the manner of their work you almost certainly need Employers Liability because injuries and damage they cause may be passed to you through vicarious liability. Whether you need Product Liability is another question as is Indemnity Liability for advice you give, and on and on. Your own personal injury insurance is up to your decision, goods in transit and storage and on and on. The best advice I could give is to decide exactly what you will be doing as work and then talk to Precision Broking or Doodsons or Robertson Taylor or any other reputable broker. Any other advice is simply personal experience because insurance, as BECTU members are discovering, is complex. Funnily enough I've never seen any of the brokers up a ladder or behind a sound desk, they tend to do insuring. The comparison with car insurance is very adept. PLI (like 3rd party car insurance) is essential. Other insurance such as those Kerry mentioned are just add-ons the protect your business and hence your bottom line, like going fully comp and adding windscreen cover and a courtesy car to your policy. If you hurt a member of the public and don't have PLI, you're screwed. If you damage some of your own equipment and it isn't insured, it'll just cost you some extra money to replace and effect your bottom line. Definitely get PLI, if you want to cover your self in other areas, get other levels of insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I am looking for PLI, which I'm pretty sure is Public Liability insurance Yes it is a simple basic level of cover for any liabilities you might have to third parties ie if a lantern you'd hung fell on their heads. But that is all it is - which is why it is relatively cheap. Beyond that Kerry is exactly right - make a list of what you do and get cover for that. I cover several fields where contacts are continually finding - when it comes to claims - that package polices sold by trade associations are problematic. This is because few small businesses - which is what freelancers are - are the same. Take car insurance for example. You might extend it to cover business use but the small print will often say this is for use of the policy holder only for his or her own business. Fill your boot with movers owned by X Ltd for whom you are subcontracting and take them to a venue and in the case of an accident you might find you weren't covered for the loss of the movers and moreover the business use wasn't covered either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Thanks for the responses guys. Much appreciated. Assuming then that for now I go with your bog standard 'Entertainment Industry Freelancer' packages, based on the fact that I am a Lighting Designer, Programmer, and Operator, I should have all the coverage I need initially until I get some work in and can top it up with anything more specific? Cheers Smiffy PS: Appreciate that none of you are insurers, so all responses taken with a pinch of legal salt ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Smiffoid person, I declare an interest. Murray the T is someone whose family has dealt with me on and off for PLI on such stuff as fireworks and fire theatre for many years so I will recommend his Precision Broking. Another declare; I am a member of the PSA and a former council member so recommending that you check out Crewcover which for £250 will give you £100 worth of PSA membership for no extra charge am a no-brainer. Some say that the Crewcover was born out of concerns about the BECTU policy but I couldn't possibly comment. All I know is that it covers me for what I need and stuff like WaH which I have no intention, at my advanced age, of even considering! As I said before, for the basic go on-line, for good advice call him up or email him but the on-line Crewcover should suffice for 90% or more of what you need right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 As always Kerry, you are a star, many thanks (not that all the others that responded are not stars, they are, I'm going to stop digging a hole now) Many thanks.... I think I'll be hitting crewcover.com and taking advantage of the PSA deal as well. Cheers Smiffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 If you hurt a member of the public and don't have PLI, you're screwed. If you damage some of your own equipment and it isn't insured, it'll just cost you some extra money to replace and effect your bottom line. The issue in the BECTU post seems to have come from where a Self Employed person damaged £x0,000's worth of kit, and so they have been hit with that bill. If you were running motors on a truss with a pair of my projectors on it, and weren't paying attention, letting the truss land on the projectors, could you afford £20K to replace them? I'm not posting this as a go at you Smiffy, but as a wake up call to some of those who could be looking in on these threads, thinking that they can get away with out the relevant cover. Proper Insurance will mean that your covered for these risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Just one other thing Paul - though more for a general point - don't forget to insure yourself. Just after I started put in my present business I fell down and sprained my ankle which left me hobbling around on a stick for weeks. But I was, just, able to get round and earn my living. Had it been a break that laid me up I think that would have been it. So I now carry a bit of Personal Accident Insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Be very sure that you really read your insurance policies carefully too - A friend of mine had personal accident insurance, which protected his income if he was injured in the course of his job. It also covered travel between work and home. He got into an accident on the way home from work. He stopped for petrol before the accident. Guess what? His insurance only covered him in transit if he went directly home. These policies are worded to avoid paying out, and some careful investigation will really help you to weed out the policies that are not worth the paper they are printed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Be very sure that you really read your insurance policies carefully too...Indeed, as we're discovering in these topics cheap insurance is cheap for a reason. There are loads of £6 a month policies around but the list of exclusions attached are huge. I suspect that any policy where 'acceptance is guaranteed' isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Example - we've just re-mortgaged and re-insured to cover the mortgage. Online quotes indicated that the insurance, to cover both of us, could be as little as £15 a month. The reality is that you'll only pay that if both of you are in your late 20s with no hobbies and desk based jobs. The moment you start to have more normal lives the premiums go up big time. We did it properly and fully declared every tiny detail; I'm now confident that we have proper cover but it cost us a lot more than £15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavin3691 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Can I ask is it a pre requisite of festival crews ets to have BECTU insurance? As a freelance trainer I have public liability and professional Indemnity one with AXA and one with Hiscox. both have a minimum of £1,000,000 cover but you can choose the ammount you want which will push up the premiums. They were both sourced through brokers but Hiscox does have a site where you can obtain quotes for both at the same time and both Hiscox and Axa do seem to be ultimately the most common policies held by my profession. Im not sure if you have to go through a broker or deal direct as the Hiscox site does offer help finding a broker. I have one other trainer friend who I think has only BECTU himself and not seperate policies like myself but he does work on the festivals and train at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Gavin - if you read back through the recent issues with the BECTU insurance, you'll find it a very popular policy, and now that all the niggles with a claim have been ironed out, I suspect many people, me included will stay with them. It's not a pre-requisite for festival crews to be insured with any particular company - but the BECTU one is just quite popular, as many people are in the union. Nothing to stop you sourcing one from anywhere. Indeed, I suspect many festival crew probably don't even have insurance, if they're subbed in. Some firms check, some don't. Many festival crews are newcomers to the industry anyway. The old lags know the reasons it's needed - others in the summer months may still be at college/uni, so might have a less than up to date viewpoint. In my entire career, I've actually been asked if I have it three times, and only once did I have to actually provide a copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrboo Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I was at a festival last weekend I know my PLI cover was too low for the event at £2,000,000 as your ment to have sane cover as the people putting on the event but there was no way I was able to get the same cover for a £150 gig.I have just gone with a Tradesman insurance from QBE for Sound and Lighting Installation. as my work is more venue tech then fesitvals so I have £2,000,000 for £76 s year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.