Ashley R Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Hi BR Just doing a little bit of industry research as to what most people would find the most convenient length for Wieland/Scopex Headers/Tails? At the moment I'm contemplating 0.8-1m long, should I make them longer? also what have people found the best way of numbering the headers/tails? Ive seen one hire comp using Cable ties on them, to mark each ch (ch 5 means 5 cable ties, ch 4 means 4 etc. etc.) I think this is brilliant, as it means you dont have to go hunting for a number, which is not always there! Is there any better solutions than this? Thanks for your input Ashley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunk_1984 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Depends what kind of work you're doing. I come across them at the lengths you've suggested, and longer. Another favourite is staggered, so starting at 1m going up to 6m. As for numbering, Heatshrink tags with the numbers on them are easy to read, or 1 - 6 wraps of tape. Most other methods seem to fade pretty quickly/stickers come off. Don't use cable ties, I personally hate cable ties on cable, you spend your life cutting your hands on them whilst coiling or running out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley R Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 These would be for Hire stock. I have seen heat shrink tags used, but some of the older ones have gone all cloudy, and sometimes the shrink slides up the cable exposing the label which then falls off. Wraps of tape, I would in vision would come off after a few times and leave gunk on the cable, but worth a try. I would agree that cable ties on general cables is a PITA, but I usually treat a Wieland header/tail differently than a regular cable, with not as much running of hands over it, being the main difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunk_1984 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I have seen heat shrink tags used, but some of the older ones have gone all cloudy, and sometimes the shrink slides up the cable exposing the label which then falls off. No, I mean like these: http://www.lemarkgroup.com/custom_product/10/heat-shrink-cable-labels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley R Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 oh wow, now that looks like a very neat solution! Will have to see if anyone in Australia does them/ how much to make in the UK and get posted over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 My favourite is staggered for the sockets, and all the same length for the plugs. - Sockets are nearly always used on an LX bar, and you don't hang fixtures on top of each other. 1m difference seems to work reasonably well most of the time.- Plugs are nearly always used on a patchbay of some kind, either on the rail or on a portable dimmer. As to the length on the plug end - depends on the patchbay it'll get used on.Take a look at the dimmers you usually hire out, and the venues you usually hire to and make it suit them - you want to be able to easily patch both the furthest-apart sockets without stretching or dangling the soca. As to labelling - use tape markers. Cable ties on flexible cable are the work of the devil. I really like a count of tape rings (1 ring, two rings etc) - though don't use electricians tape, use the 5mm gaffa tape.You can feel this in the dark and see it from a distance, unlike numbered labels. Edit- Looking at that custom heatshrink, that's excellent for a hire co. Much less likely to lose the cable in the first place, and more likely to get it back if it's retained by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley R Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 My favourite is staggered for the sockets, and all the same length for the plugs. - Sockets are nearly always used on an LX bar, and you don't hang fixtures on top of each other. 1m difference seems to work reasonably well most of the time.- Plugs are nearly always used on a patchbay of some kind, either on the rail or on a portable dimmer. As to the length on the plug end - depends on the patchbay it'll get used on.Take a look at the dimmers you usually hire out, and the venues you usually hire to and make it suit them - you want to be able to easily patch both the furthest-apart sockets without stretching or dangling the soca. As to labelling - use tape markers. Cable ties on flexible cable are the work of the devil. I really like a count of tape rings (1 ring, two rings etc) - though don't use electricians tape, use the 5mm gaffa tape.You can feel this in the dark and see it from a distance, unlike numbered labels. Edit- Looking at that custom heatshrink, that's excellent for a hire co. Much less likely to lose the cable in the first place, and more likely to get it back if it's retained by accident. So do you mean , 1m,2m,3m,4m,5m or 1m,2m,1m,2m,1m ? That is why I was thinking cable ties in the first place, but now im thinking tape would be a better solution. I think I might end up useing that heat shrink lableing just to label the header/tail as mine, and then use tape bands to number them. Unless someone else has something better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 So do you mean , 1m,2m,3m,4m,5m or 1m,2m,1m,2m,1m ?1m, 2m, 3m, 4m, 5m, 6m, as dunk suggested above.- Obvious, but remember to wire them up in that order! Everyone expects number 1 to be the shortest and 6 to be the longest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley R Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 So do you mean , 1m,2m,3m,4m,5m or 1m,2m,1m,2m,1m ?1m, 2m, 3m, 4m, 5m, 6m, as dunk suggested above.- Obvious, but remember to wire them up in that order! Everyone expects number 1 to be the shortest and 6 to be the longest. Hmmm I've never seen a hire comp here do that, they all just supply ones that are all (or were) 1m long. I wonder why they haven't done this as you have suggested above, as now 3 people that I've asked, have replied with this answer, but I don't see it as being practical in all hire situations. Your thoughts on this? And then people who have rebutted against doing what you have suggested, state that they just put the tail off center, directly hook fixtures to two/3 of the tails and then run leads for the other two. Also I'm assuming scopex has 6 ways? as all you guys seem to be stating lengths in 6's whilst wieland's are only 4/5 way (dependant on how determined you are to get the leads into the connector! tight fit at 4, impossible at 5 on some without taking the outer sheath off and shrinking the whole lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Theatre Projects, that became Vari-Lite, that became Vari-Lite PRG, that became PRG Fourth Phase, that became PRG Lighting that are now PRG Europe (I think) used to rent out either and I've no doubt that they still do. On most occasions on the Theatrical side we were renting to productions that were likely to be in for a while and things like fan outs and in's were made to whatever the Chief LX wanted, within reason, accounting for them going back into the hire stock. From an LD's perspective, I couldn't care less whether they are staggered or not, from a Lighting Tech's perspective, when you are trying to troubleshoot something in the air on a truss, then having them all end in the same location is an important ideal. It requires less moving about, and therefore danger, when working at height. It would likely differ between Theatre and Rock and Roll though. In Theatre you'd probably fly the bar in for maintenance and so staggered fan outs are fine. In a Rock and Roll environment, the likelihood is the tech is going into the roof, and that's where staggered fan outs become a pain in the rear if you need to start cross-patching or swapping and pairing. Cheers Smiffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanhill Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I would stock a load of staggered socket spiders, some equal socket spiders and some truss/stage boxes and lots of equal plug spiders. That way you cover all eventualities. Stage Electrics tend to use long lengths (4' I think) on their equals which are very handy for going between patch panels. At a venue that I used to run we used Andolite 90" IWB's for the overhead and ladder stuff as the breakouts, so maybe something like that for the staggered spacing. OT, but I never understood why people would buy long (10/12m) IWB's for lighting bars as they are a pain in the arse to move about. Little 6-way ones on s-clamps are the things for ladder bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceecrb1 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I cant tell you the best.. but I can tell you that we have in our company does NOT work well.. so avoid it. All our tails or "octopuses" as they call them here.. have 1mtr tails (legs). then the sparky made up 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5 and 3 and so extensions.. so he goes from tail direct to dimmer if he can, or extends.what does this mean... well you get a spaghetti on the floor with numerous shucko connectors.. shuckos arnt like uk 13 or 15 amp connectors.. mainly because the wire is in axis with the connector.. so they are REALLY easy to pull out by tripping on a cable etc. It just does not work. Its gotten to the stage that when I am in charge of a job.. I´ll add a 20cm x 20mtr stageing section we have with 20cm legs... do the patch then lay the staging over the spaghetti.. its the only way to keep it "secure". On sparky we work with also takes 2 arri tripodes, flys an alu bar over the dimmers.. crosses the soca/harting cables over the bar.. then patches.. this means.. its really nice and tidy for those few cables where there is no extension needed.... as they all "come from above"... but add that in with the ones on the floor and its just cable above and below. not nice. an example of his work (plus a tech helping out).http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=100001995924344&aid=12393#!/photo.php?fbid=108243962585467&set=a.107927402617123.12393.100001995924344&theater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I would say the reason Australia tends to use same-length tails, is because one of the cheapest and neatest ways to make a weiland/socca header and tails set is to grab a 2m piggyback extension, fold in half, cut and terminate. We can get 2/2.5m black piggy-back extensions for about $5 each when bought in bulk, when you take labor into consideration buying the raw components and making custom lengths is not worth it. As for labeling, paint pen on the front of the socket along with heat-shrink labels and a small coloured strip of heat-shrink (Red=1, Orange=2, Yellow=3. Green=4, Blue=5, Purple=6). Line counts: Standard in Australia is 4 for the smaller weiland connector (5 is generally avoided, IWB's are 4 cans, so 4 makes more sense and you generally want to avoid mix and match), 6 for the larger, and 6 for soccapex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 k (Red=1, Orange=2, Yellow=3. Green=4, Blue=5, Purple=6what colour code is that? Most people seem to follow the resitor colour code to the point were I rarley look at the numbers,just grab the colour and go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 k (Red=1, Orange=2, Yellow=3. Green=4, Blue=5, Purple=6what colour code is that? Most people seem to follow the resitor colour code to the point were I rarley look at the numbers,just grab the colour and go It is the resistor colour code, without black and brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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