Help with Dance Lighting

[LX-Dave]

Hi all, I'm hoping you may be able to help me with some of the problems I am facing...

 

I have recently been asked to light a dance show (which I have been lighting for the last few years) which is in may this year.

 

Firstly, some background to the show...

 

The show is the annual showcase for a youth dance group, which features around 130 dancers and many different styles.

It is held in the hall of my old high school, which has a relatively small proscenium stage, and a reasonable lighting rig.

 

The problem...

 

Due to the scale of many of the dances, the performance area utilises both the raised stage, and the floor space in front of it, which puts a bit of a strain on fixtures (but we usually manage to get around that)

 

Lighting the on stage area is relatively simple, as it has 3 horizontal bars, and a white cyc at the back, as well as full drapes and curtains (2 wings on each side).

 

However the floor space is more difficult, In the past I have had to settle for just making the dancers be seen, but I would ideally like to use more 'dance orientated' lighting, rather than primarily front/top light floods.

 

The space has two horizontal bars, 12 channels each, and a pale wooden floor (although a black dance floor fills the centre of it), white walls, and no drapes. The "backdrop" is the closed curtains of the proscenium stage.

 

Oh and the dance tutor wants the dancers to be able to come as far forward as possible, and every year I have to get them to shrink backwards else they come in front of the front most lx bar.

 

 

If anyone has any suggestions on how I could achieve better lighting for dance in this space (i.e. backlight, sidelight) it would be great help :)

 

The lantern stock consists of approx...

 

7 500W Floods, 12 Fresnels of various power, 4 2kW Fresnels, 8 Profiles (a couple of zooms, different fixed), 12 Par 38 (of my own), 5 LED Par 56s (of my own) to light both spaces! And I have fairly free reign over rigging (once the caretaker can be persuaded to set up the scaff tower at least).

 

Thank you for your time to read this (long) post :P

 

Dave

 

PS; Here are a couple of images: A Dance from last year, A wide shot, showing the rig, A blurry picture showing the empty space, A wide shot showing the fully populated space

[themadhippy]

Id be tempted stick 2 or 3 side booms either side

[Just Some Bloke]

Indeed, the most useful form of lighting for dance is sidelight, especially if it can come in from the level of the dancers' bodies. Professional ballet companies will always tour with side booms of some sort, loaded with at least 3 levels of lighting each called shins (at the height of the dancers' shins), mids (at leg/hip level) and tops (at arm/face height. If you can do something along these lines then you're well on the way to good dance lighting. If you can't, then put some footlights in at the side and use them as shins, then take the outside lanterns on your bars and point them sideways, crossing the stage to light the far side. Don't worry too much about their faces - if you light both sides of the body then the face will get picked up as well. Legs and arms are much more important in dance.

[kerry davies]

Yes, side booms or stands but with 130 young dancers all the parents will want is to see little Jenny and be able to video or photograph her. Normally I would agree with Bloke but with limited kit I'd actually go with a fairly bright general cover.

 

Not very creative but does the job for the ones who matter, the parents who pay the fees.

[Smiffy]

Looking at the pictures of some of your last rigs, I'd take those par things on the floor stands at the back and try and come up with a way of rigging them vertically from the floor at stage left and right.

 

The rest of the rig, as Kerry rightly says, leave as it is because dear old ma and pa are far more interested in seeing their kids than any appropriately arty lighting.

 

Cheers

 

Smiffy

[LX-Dave]

So if I wanted to create some side booms, they would need to be free standing, and I could probably run 3 lanterns on each off an alpha pack.

 

Any suggestions on how I could create some kind of free-standing booms (on no budget)...?

 

I was thinking something along the lines of using the standard T-bar stands (without the T section), with sections of alu/scaff bar slotted over them, to make the pipe diameter large enough for clamping fixtures to...

 

Would this work?

 

Dave

[Bryson]

You can, in a pinch, get away with just some shins, which would solve your boom issue. As someone else has said, I would totally reuse those little Par 36(? 38? 42?) fixtures as low sidelighting.

[Junior8]

As I suspected you have been provided with the 'usual space' specified/designed by someone who needs a good kicking and whatever you do it looks as though you are going to have to run a lot of cables from somewhere. Frankly I wouldn't bother as you'll end up having to mask the booms somehow, the footprint could well be an issue as far as space is concerned, and you could well end up with reflection problems from that shiny floor - there's already far too much white around as it is.

[LX-Dave]

The 2kW Lanterns, and a few Fresnels have been sufficient in the past for general cover / toplight, so I would probably stick with that for certain numbers, but I would like to add some more interesting angles too.

 

 

I'd take those par things on the floor stands at the back and try and come up with a way of rigging them vertically from the floor at stage left and right.

 

I have stands which allow them to be rigged vertically (although only at a low height) although I can't seem to find any pictures. So I may try that. When you say floor SL/SR, do you mean at the FOH side of the floor space?

 

 

You can, in a pinch, get away with just some shins, which would solve your boom issue. As someone else has said, I would totally reuse those little Par 36(? 38? 42?) fixtures as low sidelighting.

 

That is a compromise I have considered, although I would like to get some higher side lighting if I can come up with a suitable way of doing so.

 

 

 

It looks as though you are going to have to run a lot of cables from somewhere. Frankly I wouldn't bother as you'll end up having to mask the booms somehow.

 

I have access to portable dimmer packs, so the only cables that would need to be run any distance would be one DMX ring.

However masking the booms is a concern, as they would be standing down the sides and in full view of the audience... any suggestions for hiding them / making them 'fit in' ?

 

 

 

The footprint could well be an issue as far as space is concerned

 

I will obviously need to speak to the choreographer about what space she can sacrifice, but there is a good meter either side of the dance floor.

 

 

 

You could well end up with reflection problems from that shiny floor - there's already far too much white around as it is.

 

The floor shouldn't be a problem, as a black dance floor is put down in the central area... however I am concerned that there may end up being too much light on the side walls (whether I use just shins or full booms) and whether this will distract from the dancers? Is this likely to be a problem?

 

 

 

 

Thanks for all your help so far. I'm definitely going to have to get into the space at some point to experiment with stuff.

 

Dave

[Junior8]

In the bad old days I have been known to make up floor booms using standard pipe clamped firmly into those old round netball post bases. Drill right through the pipe at whatever centres you like put long bolts through and hey you have a solution. Then a simple frame with some black scrim simply braced would mask them nicely.

[islander]

I agree with most of above. specially re Ballet Booms.. or as you may call them (on your side of the pond) side booms. I started using them on the High school dance shows here a few years back and the dance teacher did not like them.. she (and her kids Parents) could not see the faces... Now she has watched what is done with these on some pro dance shows..... and she is now convinced this is the way to go... and to hell with mom and dad wanting to see their kids face... Last show I did with the highschool here... almost exclusively all... TIPS, Ballet booms and shins. even 2 footlights. DS front. I used 6 X ETC S4 70deg as shins.. and 6 X ETC S4 50 deg.with scrollers in them as mids ... 6 X ETC 50deg tips with scrollers as well. Each dance set ( and there were 20 or so) had a totally different look. All I added from the top is 5 fresnel Backlights and a few specials for say a specific solo dance here or there. The scrollers on the 50s and the 70 degree as shins made a HUGE difference. Picked up this 70 degree lens trick from a recent LD for a major National Dance troup that were here. The dancer can be 3 ft from the light and be lit from head to toe.

 

Hope this helps

Marv

[Just Some Bloke]

To sum up what we've discussed so far (in an entirely biased way!):

 

If you want it to look like a professional dance show then you need to do some hard work, run cables/portable dimmer racks in, take lanterns off the rig, re-use them as side light and get as much as you can from the sides lighting legs and arms, topped up with some side light from your existing bars and a little face light from just a few lanterns just to tickle in on the faces and then bring up to full for the bows.

 

However, if you are happy for it to look like a school show and do not want to do too much work, then what you're doing now is absolutely fine and why bother raising a sweat?

 

I do reaslise 2 things here: 1) My comments are not unbiased! 2) An awful lot of people won't notice whether you use the first way of doing it or the second! :)

 

Anyway, to answer your question:

 

I am concerned that there may end up being too much light on the side walls (whether I use just shins or full booms) and whether this will distract from the dancers? Is this likely to be a problem?

 

Only if the dancers are absolutley terrible! :D

[LX-Dave]

Having completed the show on Saturday (14th May), I figured I should update this thread for completeness.

 

Due to time constraints among other reasons, we did not create any side booms, however I managed to achieve side-lighting with Floor-mounted PAR56s.

 

For the floor level performance area, I used 8x PAR 56 300W per side, on floor stands, as sidelight, with 4x Par38 150W as front-light (again on floor stands). Supplemented by a few floods from the ceiling grid for large ballet numbers etc, as well as 5 spot-specials using fresnels / profiles on the ceiling grid.

I also used LED Par56s to uplight the curtain and as a tint of colour.

 

For the stage I used side booms, with 6x PAR38s on each CS boom, and 1 soft-focussed fresnel on each DS boom. This was supplemented by front-light from the FOH grid and a few overhead fresnel spots.

 

The plan can be seen here [pdf].

 

Here are a few of pictures from the show, although they seem much darker than it did to the human eye, as some have fairly quick shutter speeds in order to minimise motion blur!

 

http://dbproductions.webs.com/Online-Image-Store/BR%20Pics/DanceShowcase/ADS_2011_1.jpg

 

 

http://dbproductions.webs.com/Online-Image-Store/BR%20Pics/DanceShowcase/ADS_2011_5.jpg

 

 

http://dbproductions.webs.com/Online-Image-Store/BR%20Pics/DanceShowcase/ADS_2011_3.jpg

 

 

 

I was pleased with the results and would consider it a success. The producer was happy at least and the dancers didn't complain http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif.

 

Although any comments and feedback are welcomed!

 

Many thanks,

 

Dave

[paulears]

The dancers would only notice the lighting if it went out half way through - with a few exceptions, as far as they're concerned lighting = illumination. Set some specials for dancers and they won't even notice if they miss them.

[Just Some Bloke]

Looks like you did a good job. Legs and arms nicely lit and mums and dads can see faces. Job jobbed! :D