tintin99 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Hi, I need to provide sound reinforcement for a conference with up to 120 delegates so that they can all hear each other. We already have a number of Shure MX202 hanging mics and a couple of Shure SCM810 Mixers and I was thinking of using these, but I tried a similar setup a few years back and it didn't work well - it wasn't possible to get adequate volume without being on the edge of feedback. Is it usually possible to get this sort of system using hanging mics to work well with careful positioning of mics and speakers or is it a non-starter? We do have a budget for new equipment and I wondered if boundary mics would be a better bet....or is there a better solution that I haven't thought of? Many thanks, Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Sounds like you need a delegate conference system e.g. Sennheiser (although I think Shure and Bosch have them too) These provide delegate base modules that have a mic, a press to talk button and a loudspeaker. The chairperson can overide delegates and there are normally feaures that allow voting, talking time limits, recording etc. The cost is likely to be prohibitive for a one off, but there will be firms that hire this sort of system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintin99 Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 Thanks but for various reasons we wouldn't want to use a delegate conference system. One reason is that the discussions generally take place at meal times (although after people have finished eating) and the tables are quite small so it would be difficult to accommodate a table mic for each person. Do you think the hanging or boundary mics could work or is it not really worth trying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Is having a couple of runners with wireless handhelds not an option? Otherwise a hanging mic over each table and only open the mic over the table you want to listen to. Mics over the whole room all the time will be a nightmare for feedback as well as background noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Do you think the hanging or boundary mics could work or is it not really worth trying?You've tried hanging mics and found out that the GBF isn't great. Boundary mics with an automixer would be an improvement (closer mic to talker distance) but you will need sufficient mics per table, and may still find GBF problematic unless there's sufficient automixer channels or you can ride gains pretty fast. Much would depend on the room, speaker layout, ambient noise and overall level you need to achieve. Depending upon the type of conference you have, would a hand held radio mic on each table be acceptable? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintin99 Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 Is having a couple of runners with wireless handhelds not an option? Otherwise a hanging mic over each table and only open the mic over the table you want to listen to. Mics over the whole room all the time will be a nightmare for feedback as well as background noise. Yes, runners with handhelds might be an option. We would like something that causes the minimum of fuss and disruption to the proceedings, but obviously whatever we go for has to work. The SCM810 mixers can be set to only allow one mic to be active at a time so that's a big help. Do you think the hanging or boundary mics could work or is it not really worth trying?You've tried hanging mics and found out that the GBF isn't great. Boundary mics with an automixer would be an improvement (closer mic to talker distance) but you will need sufficient mics per table, and may still find GBF problematic unless there's sufficient automixer channels or you can ride gains pretty fast. Much would depend on the room, speaker layout, ambient noise and overall level you need to achieve. Depending upon the type of conference you have, would a hand held radio mic on each table be acceptable? Simon The ideal would be to have a system that the delegates don't have to bother about - ie it's just there and working without them having to do anything - but that may not be possible given the limitations of budget, current equipment etc. I did wonder about zoning the hanging mics so that the mics on one side of the room only feed the speakers furthest away from them to minimise feedback, but that might sound a bit odd I guess. But yes, I think handheld radio mics would be the safe option and at least we know they will work effectively. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takeiteasy Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 hand out 10+ radios and get them to pass them around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pritch Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 hand out 10+ radios and get them to pass them around... Not sure I'd fancy that. How do you know which mic to bring up? Have you got enough colours of electrical tape to identify each one individually? Even if you have, can you guarantee you'll be able to see them? What about the oh-so-tempting on/off switch on the mic? I'm sure we've all done an event where someone's turned off the mic after they've finished speaking, only for the next speaker to be inaudible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Automixer and tape over the switches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAG1960 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I would suggest that pass around mics would be the best solution. If you can't afford a large Radio system, then wired mics can be used as long as they are only passed short distances. I would suggest using an LS9 desk with dynamic inserts on every channel. Set a gate to 50% on each mic, and a compressor to 4:1+ soft knee. The gate will automatically reduce the volume of the mic channel when not being spoken in to directly, and the compressor will prevent any bellowing and overloading. You will need to play arround with the relevant thresholds to get the best results, but this is how we do large AGM's with multiple open audience question mics. This will work better than an auto mixer. Try to avoid coloured tape, it looks very tacky.If you have to use mic battons.A better solution is to plot where your mics are eg 1+2 left, 3+4 Back 5+6 Right, 7+8 front. Keep all your mic faders at 50%, then you only identifying one out of possible two mics. Gently raise both faders, and the turn down the one that is not in use.Someone sitting next to you is a great help in spotting live mics, letting you focus on the desk. You will get into a system really quickly. The very best of luck Neil PS always tape over any switches or buttons to avoid audience/delegate tampering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintin99 Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Thanks to everyone for your advice - it's given me plenty of ideas. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Have you thought of doing without the technology and simply asking/expecting them to speak up? I am not trying to be funny here but 120, I assume sat at tables, isn't a vast number or a vast space either. Yes hand helds and runners are probably the best solution but it is such a bore waiting for the runners to identify and reach the delegate and then listen to the poor speaker fumble their way through what they are trying to say totally intimidated by the sound of their own voice booming back at them! Permanently open - or the risk of inadvertently open -delegate handled radio mics is a tad risky surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintin99 Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Have you thought of doing without the technology and simply asking/expecting them to speak up? I am not trying to be funny here but 120, I assume sat at tables, isn't a vast number or a vast space either. Yes hand helds and runners are probably the best solution but it is such a bore waiting for the runners to identify and reach the delegate and then listen to the poor speaker fumble their way through what they are trying to say totally intimidated by the sound of their own voice booming back at them! Permanently open - or the risk of inadvertently open -delegate handled radio mics is a tad risky surely. In the past we've done without any amplification and it's not been too bad but some people speak quietly even though they are asked to speak up, and many people are getting on a bit so their hearing isn't that good. I was really looking for the perfect solution but there doesn't appear to be one - they all have downsides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I see a small gap in the market here for an adaptation of conference telephones such as http://www.westlake.co.uk/store/acatalog/Polycom.html Using internal telephony rather than a PA application. Royalties to .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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