first time thinking about using dry ice

[ahou1]

hi - haven't posted on here for ages - but you were so helpful last time though I would try again

 

just planning my next show - and thinking that for depicting 'god' some dry ice would be really effective - but I have never used it before - read a little - but I know you will know more!

 

can someone point me the direction of a good place to find out about

what we use pellets/blocks/slices

where to get them from

what we need to consider safety wise

how much it costs

what special equipment other than the ice and hot liquid we would need!

 

any help gratefully recieved

 

thanks

Alison

[GridGirl]

I can't really comment on the cost/suppliers issue as I'm on the other side of the world. However, I've used dry ice fairly extensively over the years and so I think I can help on the safety and equipment side of things! Essentially, you have to handle dry ice with extreme care. If it touches skin you'll get a burn from it (and I've seen them - not pretty!). Depending on the size of your machine, you may be able to get it packaged up in sizes which mean one package is one drop of ice, which means you can simply dump it out of the container into the basket. If this is not possible, then we usually store it in a chillybin and use a small bucket or a scoop to scoop it out of the chillybin and into the machine. Decent gloves are very important also! A metal coal shovel makes a good scoop as well.

 

A lot of hire companies will have Pea Souper dry ice machines in stock as they tend to be industry standard. I much prefer being able to fill the machine with cold water and have it heat up, over dealing with buckets of hot water and throwing the ice straight into it - which I have seen done but would not recommend. With a machine, you have the ability to put hoses on the front so you can give some direction to where the ice goes, plus it's much safer. A hire company here has a massive machine which was built for Les Mis and you can dump about 15kg of ice into it in one hit - but it's too big for a small drop!

 

Storage is not easy - the ice will sublime away at room temperature, but it's too cold to put in a regular freezer - it'll destroy the freezer. If you can get daily deliveries (or every two days) then a chilly bin is OK, but if it's less frequent than that the best solution is an old, non-working freezer - that way you get good insulation. You do have to make sure there's a hole in the freezer for any gaseous CO2 to escape out of.

 

I've always found pellets to be the most effective, particularly when your machine is a "drop the ice into the water" rather than a "shower hot water over the ice" type. It does sublime faster - greater surface area - but I always think it gives a better effect.

[dbuckley]

One thing tobe wary of is CO₂ is heavier than air. GG's suggestion of using an old freezer is a common solution, and the CO₂ will "melt" off as the dry ice sublimes over few days to nothing. That escaping gas will find the lowest point. So if the container is back stagge, and ther is an orchestra pit, thats where the gas will collect, if you let it. if here are dressing rooms below the stage, thats where it'll collect.

 

Now normally the stuff gets used fairly quickly, and theatres are drafty places, so the gas gets dissapated, but in still air, you can get problems.

[the kid]

There was something in the latest LSI about dryice, and a link to a site that was something like dryiceuser. I don't have it on me at them moment but I am sure someone has it.

[TomHoward]

We recently tried it out for a show, and the cheapest supplier we could find was Mike at Green Gases. This was the cheapest based on two 15kg deliveries - I think it was around £50/delivery + VAT.

 

We cut it from the show in the end - we had a Pea Souper, and loading it was so noisy we had to pre-load it at the top of the scene, and by the time we got to the cue most of the ice had gone so the effect was weak. This was our specific setup through and your milage may vary.

[the kid]

dryiceinfo.com is the site but it appeares to be american based. However I'm sure there is alot of useful info on there as well.

[rossmck]

Best (UK) supplier I've found for Dry Ice so far has been "Ice Cooling" ( http://ice-cooling.co.uk/ ) and personally I'd always use pellets.

 

You need to risk assess it properly - there's many risks associated with dry ice (large kettle of boiling water, burns, co2 etc..)

 

 

Your best bet in terms of equipment is probably the "Pea Souper" which has become pretty much the standard for small/medium dry ice use - your local hire company will almost certainly have one and it won't cost much to hire.

[timsabre]

What particular effect are you actually wanting?

 

If you want the curtains to open to a stage full of low lying rolling mist, dry ice is pretty much the only way to get that.

 

If you just want a bit of a smoke effect, one alternative is a chilled fog machine such as Jem Glaciator.

The advantage is you don't have all the supply/handling/safety problems with the dry ice.

The disadvantages are that the effect is not quite so convincing and the smoke tends to rise up more, and they are more expensive to hire.

[smalljoshua]

If you want the curtains to open to a stage full of low lying rolling mist, dry ice is pretty much the only way to get that.

 

The recent UK tour of the Sound of Music achieves this quite well with a FreezeFog unit and Liquid CO2.

 

Josh

[timsabre]

True, I wasn't thinking of the liquid CO2 effects, but the equipment to do that is a bit higher spec than the stuff we were talking about.

[jonathanhill]

The recent UK tour of the Sound of Music achieves this quite well with a FreezeFog unit and Liquid CO2.

Josh

The effect has now been replaced with Glac Xtremes.

[smalljoshua]

Hmmm, that's interesting to hear. I'd be interested to see which is better.

 

Josh

[Ashley R]

Just a point to make.

 

Here in Oz you can hire a Pea Souper for $50 + dry ice (@ $10/kg I think) for the first day

 

Compared to the Jem Glaciator which goes for arround $500 first day $200 additional day.

 

So a BIG price difference, for an effect that is not quite as good as the pea souper, but removes alot of the hassle. Is that hassle worth it?

[rossmck]

Glaciator is a good option - you should be able to find one for about £100-150 / week - also has the benefit of DMX control it's very noisey compared to dry ice though - wouldn't use them on a small stage.

[Nicktaylor]

The Antari Low smoke works fairly well for me and others hire it from me so it must be alright for others. I do realise that the professionals will be specifying something higher, but the hire for this is about £50 a week and a bag or two of ice anight. A bit easier for the budget concious. I also have peasouper gathering dust if anyone is interested!