JLillie Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Ok, I work at a church in Orange County, CA, USA, and we are looking at buying a new console for our auditorium. Due to size of venue, and purchasing for the near future we have narrowed the list down to either the Midas Pro 3, or the Avid Venue Profile. I'm coming to you guys to assist me with some pros and cons of each console. Some stats, I need at least 56 inputs, 24 outs. I have an aviom system we run for IEMs as well as some wedges and board mixe IEMs. I broadcast every service to the web, and we looking at doing a live album in the very near future. Please don't suggest any other console, as we have been looking at this on and off for a few years. I'm looking for Pros and Cons of each, and yes every console on the market has cons. On a side note, please keep it civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackerr Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Ok, I work at a church in Orange County, CA, USA, and we are looking at buying a new console for our auditorium. Due to size of venue, and purchasing for the near future we have narrowed the list down to either the Midas Pro 3, or the Avid Venue Profile. I'm coming to you guys to assist me with some pros and cons of each console. Some stats, I need at least 56 inputs, 24 outs. I have an aviom system we run for IEMs as well as some wedges and board mixe IEMs. I broadcast every service to the web, and we looking at doing a live album in the very near future. Please don't suggest any other console, as we have been looking at this on and off for a few years. I'm looking for Pros and Cons of each, and yes every console on the market has cons. Really not much information there. When you say 56 inputs, is that all mono, some stereo? Are the 24 outputs 24 output ports, 24 output control channels, 24 mixes? Are some of them matrix mixes? How many group type mixes vs aux type mixes? How do you use VCA/DCA control? Will you be recording? Will the recording be to ProTools? I would think with an Aviom system, you will need 16 outputs just for that. What are the functional requirements of the board, not the specs. They are both very capable consoles, big time shows get done on both of them. What are your special needs that might drive the decision one way or the other. Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLillie Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Ok, I work at a church in Orange County, CA, USA, and we are looking at buying a new console for our auditorium. Due to size of venue, and purchasing for the near future we have narrowed the list down to either the Midas Pro 3, or the Avid Venue Profile. I'm coming to you guys to assist me with some pros and cons of each console. Some stats, I need at least 56 inputs, 24 outs. I have an aviom system we run for IEMs as well as some wedges and board mixe IEMs. I broadcast every service to the web, and we looking at doing a live album in the very near future. Please don't suggest any other console, as we have been looking at this on and off for a few years. I'm looking for Pros and Cons of each, and yes every console on the market has cons. Really not much information there. When you say 56 inputs, is that all mono, some stereo? Are the 24 outputs 24 output ports, 24 output control channels, mixes? Are some of them matrix mixes? How do you use VCA/DCA control? Will you be recording? Will the recording be to ProTools? What are the functional requirements of the board, not the specs. Mac All excellent questions, sorry forgot to put them in. Our current stage is 40 inputs (m), 8 wireless (m), 3 Computers (st), Outputs: 3 Wedges (M), 2 IEMs (St), CCTV (St), Broadcast (St), Patio (M), Pastor BackUp Record (M), Aviom System (16 outs, 4 ST, 8 M). Yes I know I can and will be combining some of these outputs, but not all of them. in a perfect world, these are the outputs I would like to have. I currently don't use VCA/DCAs (my current board doesn't have them). Yes some of them are matrix mixes, but only due to trying to do too much with a small console. I'm planning on implementing a multi-track recording set up, but right now we have nothing out side of our capture for resale, and web distribution. I hope That clears some things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisky-zulu Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Best piece of advice I can give is to say go an road test both consoles if you haven't done so already: see if you find them easy to use and set-up; will someone else with little sound mixing experience be able to walk up and work the board if you or the regular engineer is away for whatever reason. It shouldn't be too hard to set up a demo of either console with a local equipment hire firm as most often they're looking for potential customers. I can't really give pros or cons to either, but if the Pro 3 is anything like the Pro 6 I've had a play with, then I disliked the lack of "intelligent patching", (by "intelligent patching" I mean where you plug something in, it assumes you want the signal to go to the corresponding fader unless you tell it otherwise) and the menus you had to use to get much of the set-up of the board done. The good feature about the Pro 6, and I don't know if the Pro 3 has it, was the DCA fold out on selection of the DCA showing you all the faders you had assigned to that DCA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLillie Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 I can't really give pros or cons to either, but if the Pro 3 is anything like the Pro 6 I've had a play with, then I disliked the lack of "intelligent patching", (by "intelligent patching" I mean where you plug something in, it assumes you want the signal to go to the corresponding fader unless you tell it otherwise) and the menus you had to use to get much of the set-up of the board done. The good feature about the Pro 6, and I don't know if the Pro 3 has it, was the DCA fold out on selection of the DCA showing you all the faders you had assigned to that DCA. yes, the pro 3 has fold out for the DCAs, and as far as my research shows the main difference between the pro 3 and pro 6 is the amount of DSP, and channels allotted by said DSP. I've got some hands on time set up next week at a "local" dealer, so I should get a little more knowledge of the console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisky-zulu Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Certainly over here in the UK, Midas offer full training courses on the Pro 6 and XL8 ranging from certified user - you know how it all works, how to patch etc. and some of the networking theory behind it all - to two day courses where you take the board apart and become a certified service tech or system tech. Might be worth looking into seeing if they offer them over the pond; can't see why they wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I have a personal preference for the UI on the Midas but I think Whisky-zulu's advice is the best. When spending this much on a console you really need to have some hands-on time and see how it works for YOU. Do some typical set-ups as you would run things at your church and see how easy/hard it is to operate. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biro Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Midas hands down. Here is a useful couple of pages for you: (Freelancer who uses both consoles mentioned) http://i51.tinypic.com/2f0dket.jpg http://i54.tinypic.com/245c4rr.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil dekked Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Just a couple of things spring to mind Aviom and Recording? What Aviom system are you using now? A Digidesign will interface to Aviom & Pro Tools far easier than a Pro 3/6/9? Would you use the DN9696 that Midas offer ? .p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLillie Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Thanks Biro, have yet to see that info side by side. Question, Why the midas over the venue? Can you expound on the reasons for you liking the midas over the avid(venue)? Phil Dekked, currently we are interfacing with the aviom through the a-net card for yamaha. Yes, I agree it seems easier/cheaper to interface aviom with the venue verus the pro3. As for the DN9696 I have no problem using it, then dumping the tracks to a different system for some post production. Also the smallish form factor, and all inclusiveness of the DN9696 makes like it more than the way venue connects to a multitrack setup. I do have a meeting scheduled for early next week that gets me on a console, can't wait for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackerr Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I can't really give pros or cons to either, but if the Pro 3 is anything like the Pro 6 I've had a play with, then I disliked the lack of "intelligent patching", (by "intelligent patching" I mean where you plug something in, it assumes you want the signal to go to the corresponding fader unless you tell it otherwise) and the menus you had to use to get much of the set-up of the board done. The good feature about the Pro 6, and I don't know if the Pro 3 has it, was the DCA fold out on selection of the DCA showing you all the faders you had assigned to that DCA. yes, the pro 3 has fold out for the DCAs, and as far as my research shows the main difference between the pro 3 and pro 6 is the amount of DSP, and channels allotted by said DSP. I've got some hands on time set up next week at a "local" dealer, so I should get a little more knowledge of the console. I haven't used one recently, but I think the Profile also has something similar to the "fold out" of the Midas. It was introduced with the SC48, and then integrated into Profile and D-Show. Although standing back and looking at them, the Midas is the best looking console out there, I find the Profile a little easier to get my head around, although making stereo channels and moving channels around is a little confusing. If you are considering recording to ProTools the built in (add on card) interface for either 18ch via firewire (ProTools LE), or all channels via HDMI (ProTools HD) may be a big point. If you have users with PT familiarity, the availability of similar plug ins may also be a point in favor of Profile. If you use a lot of mixes the Profile, with 24 configurable groups, 8 mono matrixes, and 8 stereo PQ mixes, may fit your needs better. Depending on your needs, the PQ mixes with remote PQ mixers might replace your Aviom system. The Profile also appears to be easier to upgrade, as it is just the addition of more of the same gear, not a change in the basic config, although both have a path to 96 inputs. I think limiting yourself to 48ch when your current needs use 44 of them is shortsighted. I would want more than 4 leftover channels for future expansion. Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilflet Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I haven't used one recently, but I think the Profile also has something similar to the "fold out" of the Midas. It was introduced with the SC48, and then integrated into Profile and D-Show. Although standing back and looking at them, the Midas is the best looking console out there, I find the Profile a little easier to get my head around, although making stereo channels and moving channels around is a little confusing. Yes- the venue desks do do it, I think its called "spill" I find the opposite to Mackerr- having done gigs on both the profile and sc48 Iv always hated the user interface- dont get me wrong, it worked, I could do everything I needed to, but to me the interfaces makes me feel further removed from the band than other digital desks, like I was thinking about menus and submenus rather than sound and the feel of the mix. Where as other desks on my first time using them, mainly vi6 and sd8, it felt more intuitive and I was far happier with my mix as a result. I think the important thing is get some demos with everyone who will use it and preferably your full band- that way you know how the user interfaces will make you feel and also show up the clashes of what can be adjusted at the same time as what else for the things you actually need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biro Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 My experience of the Avid Venue is good, I like the Pro Tools recording setup for someone who is not a recording person. I prefer the Midas due to its GUI...just prefered the way this was laid out. Plus the sound. Plus the Networking. Console choice is very subjective though, you should choose one that you like ! As there is not going to be any complex networking in your system then the networking thing isnt going to be the sell point! Midas are very accommodating, I know a lot of people at Midas here and they always go out of their way to help out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackerr Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I find the opposite to Mackerr- having done gigs on both the profile and sc48 Iv always hated the user interface I am not wild about the SC48 either, but we are not talking about the SC48. Overall, I prefer the UI of the PM5D, having all 24 mix sends available on the selected channel is important to me, and it makes it very easy to see where signals are routed. I am also very familiar with it, but we're not talking about PM5D either. It seems the networking issue may also be working its way out. Avid has been issued a license for AVB networking. As Biro pointed out, how the UI works for you is the important part. Try both out in a real situation and see what works best for you. Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLillie Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 Got my hands on the console, and now I'm more confused on which one... I like how the midas has specific knobs for specific things, where the venue knobs may not be what you think they are. IE the encoders. I Like how the Venue has plug in's available. Midas sound +1, etc... unfortunately because I'm part of a church, the odds are good that it will come down to cost. Currently though I'm kinda leaning towards the Midas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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