Guitar amps for live band

[Wilflet]

putting amps at the side pointing across the stage means the band still hear the onstage level they want but with less spill out front competing with your mix

[pisquee]

Hi Sam,

 

Something that you need to understand, that on the whole, what makes an electric guitar sound like an electric guitar, is not just the sound which comes out of the guitar itself (that you are currently DIing to your sound desk) but also of an effects pedals, the amplifier, and speaker cabinet ... the sound of all of these things is what you need to capture, and that can only really be done with a microphone in front of the speaker cabinet.

Part of being a sound engineer (and quite a big part) is understanding how each instrument creates its sound, which parts of the instrument produce which bits of the sound, and the best way of capturing that and reproducing it.

[JackBrienLX]

You could build an isolation case, I've used them a lot in orchestra pits to stop the guitar being too loud out of the cabinet and also to stop bleed into the guitar mics from other sources.

 

Fairly simple really, just a box or cube (hopefully on wheels!), with layers of rockwool or similar acoustic material on the inside, and the cabinet/mic placed in. I've seen it done by some quite major bands as well, where they have custom flight cases made as above, but with the mic and guitar cabinet permanently mounted and just a panel mount XLR socket on the side of the case. This takes away all problems of mic changing position, acoustics etc and gives you an identical guitar sounds every time you plug it in. Sometimes it doesn't even make it off the lorry/bus, just sits there with a 30m XLR running to the stage..

 

Might be an idea,

 

Jack

[peza2010]

You could build an isolation case, I've used them a lot in orchestra pits to stop the guitar being too loud out of the cabinet and also to stop bleed into the guitar mics from other sources.

 

Fairly simple really, just a box or cube (hopefully on wheels!), with layers of rockwool or similar acoustic material on the inside, and the cabinet/mic placed in. I've seen it done by some quite major bands as well, where they have custom flight cases made as above, but with the mic and guitar cabinet permanently mounted and just a panel mount XLR socket on the side of the case. This takes away all problems of mic changing position, acoustics etc and gives you an identical guitar sounds every time you plug it in. Sometimes it doesn't even make it off the lorry/bus, just sits there with a 30m XLR running to the stage..

 

Might be an idea,

 

Jack

I have seen this done many a time, and mixed with it a few times... Brilliant idea.. Give the box an XLR and a iec and it's all systems go... Very nice to mix with, good monitors are key though.

[Bobbsy]

Hi Sam,

 

Something that you need to understand, that on the whole, what makes an electric guitar sound like an electric guitar, is not just the sound which comes out of the guitar itself (that you are currently DIing to your sound desk) but also of an effects pedals, the amplifier, and speaker cabinet ... the sound of all of these things is what you need to capture, and that can only really be done with a microphone in front of the speaker cabinet.

 

 

I agree totally, pisquee, which is why I always advocate miking the cabinet rather than trying to use DIs, modellers and so on.

 

However, guitarists also have to realise that, once they join a band, they have to be aware of the effect their instrument is having on the overall sound of the group. Turning up with a huge Marshall stack in a pub venue that holds 100 people and justifying it as his "sound" is just being selfish and impractical. It's possible to achieve the same sound, just quieter, then run it through the mix with the rest of the band and that's the thrust of most of the hints that have been given in this thread.

 

Being in a band means working together--and that includes the guy doing sound. Everyone has to be aware of the effect their instrument (or mixer) has on the overall sound, not just what they're doing.

 

Bob

[nb705]

A band that I enginered for a while back. had a guitarist in a band that had a huge marshall stack a 6x2 cab I think or sumat like that, but removed all speakers but one of the middle ones. it also made the cab a bit lighter. they usually played in venues with audience of 300-700. If I rememebr correctly they had 4 x PS15's a side and 4 x CD12's a side. It was very easy to mix.

 

 

PS15s don't really array very well. Even with two per side there's noticeable comb filtering.

[phil dekked]

putting amps at the side pointing across the stage means the band still hear the onstage level they want but with less spill out front competing with your mix

 

My pet hate at monitors is a Guitar Cab in front of you pointing across the stage . As most guitar cabs are open backed you get a good "blast" !

 

I prefer as has been said... either position them up close to the guitarist , move them off stage ( if they are not willing to turn down).

 

Or do what the "Boss" does ...lie them down...

 

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_F83NjN9OTi0/TT7M_3jewPI/AAAAAAAABB8/NruCEUCZOdo/s640/hydepark_pete.jpg

 

 

 

.p.

[Wilflet]

putting amps at the side pointing across the stage means the band still hear the onstage level they want but with less spill out front competing with your mix

 

My pet hate at monitors is a Guitar Cab in front of you pointing across the stage . As most guitar cabs are open backed you get a good "blast" !

 

 

This was more for small venues where your mixing monitors from front of house. I wouldnt do this infront of the monitor board anyway- if the monitor engineer cant see the band theres not much point him being there.

 

 

 

[JLillie]

another thing I would do, and have finally convinced my guitarist to do is use a cab modeler like the Digitech, or Line 6 items. There is also a company in Orange County, CA, USA that makes a cabinet in an enclosed box called the AxeTrax, I've used them before, and they sound awesome. You would just take the output of the amp head and put it into the input of the AxeTrax. Or if the guitarist doesn't have a seperate cab/head set up, then you an unplug the speaker and just plug it into the axe trax.

 

My 2 cents.

[dbuckley]

A 4x2x2 cable trunk makes a great place to chuck a 1x12 cab and a SM57...

[T.Colwill]

I'm a drummer in a rock band and I can understand your views from a FOH position. But in my opinion, as a band member, it's best to be able to run off your own backline regardless of the PA. For example, if you turn up to a show and they say "well we're only mic'ing the vocals" and you've got you little 30w practice amp you're a bit scuppered. It also means that you don't have to rely on any monitor's (and pubs and smaller venues don't usually have them anyway) as you can hear yourself and as the drummer, I can usually hear everyone.

 

I guess in the OP position, they are taking their own PA around with them? So the backline isn't so important. All the same, my rhythm guitarist uses a Marshal half stack but he hardly pushes it at the smaller venues. You don't have to run it at full whack to get a good sound, only loud enough for him to hear it above the drums.

 

In my opinion, DIing the guitars won't get a decent sound. A nice amp and cab will.

 

Tim

[RobA]

If you go down the making the stack quieter and micing it up route another trick that might be useful is swapping the power valves. Whether it's a sensible option will depend on the amp, and you'll probably need to re-bias, but it can work well. A couple of years ago I swapped the 6L6s in my amp for 6V6s, now I can get a decent sound without annoying the neighbours http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif