Sub-standard XLR connectors on kit/panels

[Solstace]

Hi everyone

 

I've ordered and installed some PULSE plug-in panels (ordered from CPC, not that it's their fault!) on a system, and we seem to be having problems with the panel-mounted FXLR sockets being generally more loose than normal, the result being that if anyone so much as *looks* at a mic cable the connector moves slightly and the system pops and bangs like a professional fireworks display.

 

Is this a common problem that others encounter with this or similar "entry level" kit, or is this likely a faulty batch that needs replacing by the supplier?

 

We're having to cave in to pressure to replace the panels with the more spendy Canford alternative that apparently uses Neutrik connectors anyway, but thought I'd ask here to raise the (potential) issue for others to look out for.

 

[Grrr. More time and money we don't have on something that should have worked right off the bat.]

[Scottish_AV_in London]

Hi everyone

 

I've ordered and installed some PULSE plug-in panels (ordered from CPC, not that it's their fault!) on a system, and we seem to be having problems with the panel-mounted FXLR sockets being generally more loose than normal, the result being that if anyone so much as *looks* at a mic cable the connector moves slightly and the system pops and bangs like a professional fireworks display.

 

Is this a common problem that others encounter with this or similar "entry level" kit, or is this likely a faulty batch that needs replacing by the supplier?

 

We're having to cave in to pressure to replace the panels with the more spendy Canford alternative that apparently uses Neutrik connectors anyway, but thought I'd ask here to raise the (potential) issue for others to look out for.

 

[Grrr. More time and money we don't have on something that should have worked right off the bat.]

 

 

On this issue as they were bought new from CPC I would insist that they replaced them on the basis that this is not standard behaviour for new equipment. And if they were damaged in transit to you from CPC then its their duty to make sure that you get the parts in the condition you would expect from them.

 

Even entry level kit shouldn't be loose or popping and banging "like a professional fireworks display" (I have to say that analysis is genius at providing connotations of the issue).

 

It sounds to me like a manufacturing fault, or a damage in transit?

 

Is neutrik the manufacturer of the XLRF connectors on the dodgy unit?

[Simon Lewis]

Two issues here -

1) whether or not the Pulse panels are fit for purpose (and need replacement or refunding)

2) whether low cost XLR connectors will provide the same level of quality as a Neutrik or Switchcraft etc.

 

I'd be inclined to chase up (1) and if you can't be given something that works properly, assume 2 to be true and buy accordingly.

My experience with cheap XLRs was that there can be more 'give' in the connector and that cable clamp methods varied between poor and utter rubbish. I simply bought Neutrik from that point on, and apart from the odd release catch getting jammed (GRRR!) they have not let me down.

[Rob_Beech]

The connectors will not be Neutrik, but the price paid will reflect this.

 

I make nearly all my "bodge" leads from cpc's cheaper XLR's now although most of the time I still use Neutrik jacks on the cables that require jacks as I've not found one that is reliable enough. They are fine and if you buy enough they're a fair bit under 50p a piece. Ideal for that. I used to just use XX series for it all but I lose so many gender changers and stuff each year it's time to save some money. Never had a problem with the trailing connectors, though I'm not familiar with the panel mount ones. I DON'T use them in standard hire stock for mic cables and looms etc as whilst they've never caused issue, it's just not worth the hassle.

 

 

Rob

[ramdram]

Just had a gander at the item on CPC; made in China. A valuable lesson that on occasion their "quality control" lacks two elements...quality...control...

 

Anyway thanks for the heads up on that item and reminding us about getting what you pay for. I calculate that price is a third of what you might be expected to cough up for a Neutrik'd panel.

[Quincy]

I've bought some of the Pulse XLR leads from CPC, although they work ok, they aren't Neutrik and I don't think I will be buying any more of them! They seemed as though the outer casing on the plugs was a fraction too big and you had to give them quite a push to get them in and latch.

If you are building rackmount patch panels / connection plates etc, CPC sell the blanks, all pre punched in a number of configurations. If you look in the enclosures part of the catalogue, you can then fill these up with what ever you want, and they even sell the blanks to make it look nice :)

Hope this helps.

Andrew

[Pete Alcock]

Hi Solstice,

 

Does sound like the sockets are at fault. After similar experiences I wouldn't even use no-name Far-Eastern XLRs for the light in my tent.

 

The only exception is with a line CPC introduced last year from REAN - see below. REAN is owned by Neutrik. These cables are made in China but the connectors are to Neutrik's quality standards and are excellent. I use them for all patch cables (jack-XLR etc) because the plugs are moulded on so there's no strain relief to fail or crack off. I don't find them "floppy" enough for general stage mic leads but supremely robust for other uses. ReAN XLR Leads

 

http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/farnell/standard/AV18029-40.jpg

 

Sorry if it's slightly OT, but hopefully of use in discerning the cheap rubbish from the (inexpensive) good stuff!

 

PA.

[TomHoward]

How does the price of an unloaded punched panel and a bunch of Neutrik XLR mounts compare to the Canford offering?

 

I make £5 for a 12x D punched panel and about £2.50 a panel XLR - seems less than the XLR patch panels I can find.

[dan slv-tech]

Having worked for a major UK distibutor, we found that XLR "copies" have so many differing tollerances.

Generally copy male sockets are fine, its the females you have to be wary of.

 

problem is the stip of rounded metal inside the plug is crimped closed so every time you plug in/out that hole stretches and gets looser and looser till eventually or sooner in some cases the connection becomes unreliable.

 

Neutrik connectors are well made thus this doesnt occur.

 

In my time at the "firm" I had seen very dangerous "powercon" copies where you could touch the terminals through the front of the socket, 5 Pin XLRs that the pins didnt quite marry up to a receptical, and even "stereo" jacks that were in fact just a black ring around the plug.

 

So to round up, you get what you pay for, if its to be plugged, unplugged, and used in a critical situation, neutrik /switchcraft all the way, its going to be left not touched then maybe cheapy chearful works for you? same goes for leads tbh!

 

D

[Simon Lewis]

Having worked for a major UK distibutor, we found that XLR "copies" have so many differing tollerances.....In my time at the "firm" I had seen very dangerous "powercon" copies where you could touch the terminals through the front of the socket, 5 Pin XLRs that the pins didnt quite marry up to a receptical, and even "stereo" jacks that were in fact just a black ring around the plug.

 

It's not suprising then that Neutrik mounted a fairly big campaign asking users to buy the "real thing", and pointing out that cheap copies could be unreliable or even unsafe. Perhaps that's what eventually got one supplier of spares for studios to stop selling Speakon copies? Obviously, Neutrik want to sell their own goods, but they are consistently good, and continue to improve and innovate their range, in a way that perhaps Switchcraft never did.

 

Unified connector housings (D series), locking chassis jack sockets, chuck style cabe strain relief, Powercon, Speakon and Ethercon are just some of good things they've come up with. I'm more than happy to keep using them!

 

Simon

[ojc123]

The cheaper ones are not as good. No surprise really. We have a cheap multicore and I ended up replacing all the cheap sockets with neutrik because it let me down too often. It's been fine since. It probably cost more than getting a good one in the first place. Lesson learned. The cheap plugs don't seem to be such a problem. Kids tend to be a bit rough on this kind of thing.

[jonathanhill]

I buy the punched rack panels from CPC, which are fairly cheap and then populate them with whatever Neutrik panel mount connectors are required for that particular rack. I have always exclusively used Neutrik for their consistent quality. I used to work for a manufacturer of pro-audio gear where someone 'responsible' for stock control bought a load of CliffCon XLR and speakON copies. I was at one point tasked with making up a load of XLR cables for a sponsorship gig that they were providing some PA for, and I found that I was going through three or four of these XLR copies before I managed to make a termination as the plastic bush that hold the pins would melt, or at least come loose enough to release the hold on the pins. Much swearing and throwing broken XLR's out of pram. Any cost savings made by purchasing cheap connectors will generally be lost by poor quality and low reliability for medium to heavy use.

[paulears]

I doubt you'll have any issues getting CPC to take them back - As Rob said, selection for the job in hand is the key. For high use patches, then Neutrik is a sensible choice, but for virtually permanent set-ups I've had no problems with the cheap ones. Sticking a plug in 'feels' different so the internal wiping contacts are presumably quite different.

[Mixermend]

Another thumbs up for Neutrik - I have seen plenty of connector copies that are just not up to the job. Problems include (as already mentioned by another member) - dimensional errors, which include jack plugs lengths (shorter and longer than standard), tip sizes and shapes all over the place. Jack plug tips on 'cheap' jack often fall off, usually whilst in a socket of course - being difficult to remove and occasionally damaging the socket.

 

XLR problems see include poor plastic material that simply melts when soldering, latches are sometimes a problem, locking up, making it impossible to un-mate connectors. But the funniest thing I have seen is the pin numbering on an XLR being incorrect, with pins 1 & 2 marking reversed! I wonder how many thousands of connectors were made with this error - before they realised......

 

If you ever think that you need to save some money when purchasing connectors - have a think about what the cost of a problem with a defective component might be?

[soundspider]

As paul said, it depends entirely on use. The cheapie CPC ones aren't as nice or as robust or as easy to work with as the Neutrik ones, but if they're for an install where its gonna be soldered once, plugged once and left alone for several years (I install in churches!), the cheapies are fine, and about a quarter of the price, so they have a purpose. Wouldn't use them for high use multi's or patch panels though.

 

Alan