Ebb Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Hello, new poster! Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere. I just wanted to know everyones opinions and techniques on busking music shows. There's obviously the factors of the rig (whether its one you've designed or a venues rig you are visiting on a tour), time, if you're touring a desk, how well you know the bands music etc. I would generally set up non specific building blocks that I could use in different ways throughout the show using pallettes, with a few specific presets for particular parts in the show. It would be great to hear how everyone approaches their shows, busking a one off show you don't know, right up to touring with a full rig. Would be great to get a discussion going here and pick up some other techniques from people. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianeades Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Hi Like you I would see what the rig looked like in advance if poss.Any pars can you get a chase going,colour washs like blue for moody songs,any specials you can use.Are there any moving lights if so like you said bang some palettes in.Get a feel for any type of music and go for it.I,ve been busking for about 20 years as the venue I worked had a lot of tribute bands in and don't tour with there own lx.I do enjoy busking. Have fun Brian Eades :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peza2010 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Without seeing a rig, and using an avolite pearl I tend to do the following... Parcans - separate colour washes, split colour washes (if any of the gels work well together) and chases and a bright "inpact" Movers - a range of shapes on movers (using the fader to control speed) a range of nice looking mover states, then pallets for different positions and colours. I'm a drummer myself and I find it fairly easy when listening to a band to predict upcoming "stabs" and changes within the song by hearing what the drummer is doing... *jargon alert* fills,accents and dynamics are a great indication of what's coming up next... It's all good fun though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm a drummer myself and I find it fairly easy when listening to a band to predict upcoming "stabs" and changes within the song by hearing what the drummer is doing... That is the most useful thing people have posted for ages. That is why people who are not musical produce boring lighting with even the best rigs - it's a kind of empathy with the music, you can feel tempo changes, predict the button on the end is coming, or there won't be. It's these subtle thing you can't teach. My pet hate are preprogrammed chases that are nearly but not quite in time with the music. I try to always keep 4 buttons or 5 if they're spare that I can manually chase in an almost piano playing style - having chase steps stab with the music, then go back to on the beat looks so much better than those people who do so many seconds of chase until bored then just hit the next sequence at a musically inappropriate moment. As I'm old, I'm still a lover of full up finishes for big numbers, or at least a visible build as the end happens. Nice pretty stuff for the ballads and then contrast for the next up tempo number. I cringe when you hear the visiting act's on stage person call for a special on the guitar solo and seeing the rhythm guitarist or bass player light up because the op had no idea who was playing which part - because it's not their job to be a musician! I remember a few years ago when MIDI first started appearing on lighting desks, Jim Davidson appearing with a midi keyboard and telling the venue op that when the chorus came, play and F chord and it looks stunning - and seeing a confused face. It never occurred to him people couldn't play basic chords on a keyboard? The idea that by playing the keys, along with the music would be a good way of triggering lighting is quite a good one - IF you have a musician doing the lights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Hill07 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 The usual busking I do.. if we consider the rig to be maybe 12 movers, 6 bars of 6 par64s etc... Odd + Even Dimmers for the moversDimmer SpreadDimmer 2:1 PulseMaybe another Dimmer shape..Maybe 3 or 4 shapes (Circle, Tilt Saw etc) With a collection of palletes for colour, beam, position etc. Pars, usually just block intensity's per colour.. and then maybe a couple of chases! I'm also a musician, and completely agree with everything you've said there Peza2010... it definitely is something you can't teach, I guess us musicians just get a 'feeling' of what's going to happen naturally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Seedage Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm a drummer myself and I find it fairly easy when listening to a band to predict upcoming "stabs" and changes within the song by hearing what the drummer is doing... That is the most useful thing people have posted for ages. Totally agree - Been trying to teach that skill for years, and never been able to put my finger on why some people can and some people cant do that when listening to the music.. I always watch the drummer when I'm busking for that entire reason... Even more than the front man - If the front man jumps and you take the blackout, and he's out of time, you look the fool coz the music is still going (or has even stopped!) On response to the OP, I'm normally a Left Hand Side Base States, Right Hand Side Stabs (or just on channel bumps depending on the desk) - Middle Movers setup on submasters, but do tend to take control manually a lot with the movers (so on a Pearl, base state up, then grab the group of movers and move them to preset focusses over time manually, then a quick ClearClear when I want to get control back on subs..) Even makes busking with video possible if you plan well enough in advance and refine your setup. I think my biggest piece of advice is not to try and plan too much, and let your decisions on layout/content be based on your performances.. You can think through a layout for days and days, program it for hours and hours, and get in front of a band and none if it works... getting in there with a basic setup and adding more as you develop your busking style will make for a better performance.. (And it is a performance.. Remember that!) P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I think there is only so far you can go with techniques without being specific about the console, as that will be a significant factor. I tend to keep all main playbacks as intensity. That way I know I can get to blackout quickly.Regarding intelligents I will usually have an intensity master for each group or type of fixture and one dimmer chase. I avoid dimmer shapes like the plague since it is usually either difficult or impossible to control both the level and speed. The remaining intensity playbacks will be generics and specials relevant to the show.One or two positional shapes somewhere out of the way if possible. Everything else as palettes. Note that on the Pearl all flavours of software have quick palette option meaning you don't have to select (and subsequently clear) fixtures, unless you deliberately want to hold something as high priority in the programmer. And that's one press of clear. Save your fingers. Save the buttons. I might start a campaign.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I think my biggest piece of advice is not to try and plan too much, and let your decisions on layout/content be based on your performances.. You can think through a layout for days and days, program it for hours and hours, and get in front of a band and none if it works... getting in there with a basic setup and adding more as you develop your busking style will make for a better performance.. (And it is a performance.. Remember that!) P I'd agree with that with the addition of don't do too much. Nobody's come to see your lighting. I have been to some shows where the busking has ruined the performance especially the overuse of various specials and it was a wonder the control room wasn't stormed!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm a drummer myself and I find it fairly easy when listening to a band to predict upcoming "stabs" and changes within the song by hearing what the drummer is doing... That is the most useful thing people have posted for ages. That is why people who are not musical produce boring lighting with even the best rigs - it's a kind of empathy with the music, you can feel tempo changes, predict the button on the end is coming, or there won't be. Unless of course you are working with crud cover bands... Numerous times I have been setting up for a beautiful ending, and the front man kills the end of the song to start shouting at the audience.... Grr... Anyway... On an MA I have a totally different programing style to most other desks - Basically, all my position and colour is done in the programmer. The MA has the ability to fade pallets into and out of the programmer and has a dedicated fader to set that fade time. As far as my basic band rig, I usually have an LX bar of washes at the front, 2 bars with spots, a par rig on the spots bars and ideally, something along the back of the stage as well. I separate my movers by bar into groups, and have a group master for each. On my executor buttons I work vertically from the bottom up, with each group having a Full button, a strobe button, a dimmer chase for that bar and then a few full-rig intensity chases etc. Pars I group by colour and shove one colour per fader. Then I patch 3 speed masters which I rename Intensity, Movement and Colour and I build all my effects referencing these masters based on what the effect does. By using group masters, you can quickly select the groups (the button above the fader selects all fixtures in the group master), you can BO a group, or flash open the group master as well. Means you can do some funky stuff with the master at 50%, flashing up to full and down to 0. I can generally fit all my busking faders on less than half the faders of an MA full size, which is necessary when doing corporate I find. It is really efficient when you get used to the style, but it confuses the hell out of people trying to transfer from the hog etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamtastic3 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm also a musician, and completely agree with everything you've said there Peza2010... it definitely is something you can't teach, I guess us musicians just get a 'feeling' of what's going to happen naturally! Knowing certain prinicples of music helps at least (the way an average song is constructed for example)! But you don't have to be a musician to be naturally good at lighting a band! I'm not in a band or play an instrument yet I've always picked up that 'feeling' and have been doing it well for several years ;). I completely agree with the notion though that it's the drummer that's fairly important when listening to a band for lighting changes. He is after all, the one that keeps the band together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peza2010 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I completely agree with the post above...You don't have to be a musician to pick up on the tempo and feel of a song, you either have rhythm or you don't...I was just pointing out that personally I'm a drummer so it's the drums I usually work from.As said early a rubbish cover band makes that job a lot harder, but I think as an audience people will see that the band are terrible before they notice the lighting "didn't quiet work! " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX-Dave Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 If you haven't seen it already, there's this article on On Stage Lighting about the pros and cons of "know the rig" vs "know the show" Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That is why people who are not musical produce boring lighting with even the best rigsI think thats broadly true. My pet hate are preprogrammed chases that are nearly but not quite in time with the music.Absolutely, and I've ranted against this before. But all is not lost even with a non-musician behind the desk - note box with red buttons: http://davidbuckley.name/pix/pc_and_voyager.jpg Feed the voyager some music with a beat, and it'll find the beat. Perfect on-the-beat chases. Even with strobes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peza2010 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I would like to have a look at that voyager "box" you use...I have googled "voyager,voyager lighting,voyager lighting control" and it just throws back results with an address and phone number... Do you have a link to that "box" so I can read up on it? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 If you google redsound voyager 1 you'll get lots of appropriate hits, including the manual. The box is discontinued, but they are available on the second hand market. E2A: Here is a review from SOS magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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