opinions on where to rig subs.

[ceecrb1]

Ok I´ll start of by being clear...

The price of this jobs is cheap. MUST use what I have, and what I have is not suitable.. client has been told, knows this and accepts it. (plus we´ve done it 5 times now).

So PLEASE try to leave out the idea of "other gear" and all the complaints. I KNOW ALREADY!

 

every 6 months when I rig valencia fashion week I cant get it sounding nice like I would like.. for various reasons.

First.. the speakers I have to use are 8x 1500W line array sections.. which I must use as point sources along the catwalk, facing out to the public. (I KNOW, I KNOW!!!! go re-read first comment)

I can NOT use them as arrays as motor points are 1000€ per chain point just to get permission to hang them in the venue.. I MUST hang them from the lighting truss which is 6.5mtrs above the catwalk and runs parallel with it.

 

These arnt great.. they cover horizontally perfectly well but do not open vertically enough.... I hate it... but moving on.

These have to be like this.. like it or leave it.. there's nothing/little I can do to change it.

 

The 2nd problem and the one I am more interested in.... the subs. I´ve tried a new location every fashion week for the last 2 years and never found a decent location...

I have certain "rules".

They cant be on the floor. end of. neither near the model´s through ways or in sight of cameras.... ie nowhere.

They wont fit under the audience seating as the subs are larger than the holes between the alu structure they rig.

I have had them in various locations before.. the easiest was in a gap behind one of the audience seating areas.. but it was 2mtrs away from the press office... so I was told not to do that again <face palm>.

SO "outside" of the catwalk area is also out of bounds!

 

Last year I think I had my best results. I ratchet strapped them to the top of the truss (with foam between them and the truss to stop the lights/projector vibrating!)... just above the models exit at the head of the "T"... However it was very bass heavy at that end, and back stage and light once it reached the control at the end of the catwalk.. meaning DJ´s were always demanding more sub.

 

Now the part I´ve been trying to work out.. Would I be best of rigging the 2 subs, like last time, on the truss, but half way down the catwalk (centre of public)... OR one at either end?? Trying to get my brain around it.

I´d rather not have one at each end, as honestly... the control is at the "far end" so we´d spend the week with our fillings being rattled out...

 

I always try to rig this job imagining that I was at stage right.... ie the audience face the stage.. not the control.. ie the models "cross stage left to right" if you see what I mean.

 

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_g6d3PQ6-2jI/TIQb1IgHFxI/AAAAAAAABoc/eUupT03yCm4/s512/DSC_0351.JPG

 

 

 

This time, there are changes.. 1st is new location.. here the 1000€ chain charges come into effect.. in the last place there were no suitable locations as the audience started right up against the wall, so I´d never get enough curve on the array to fill.

This new location means there will be audience seated on both sides of the catwalk, end to end, where originally there was an opening (for a loading door) to one side... this means my 8 array sections that were originally 7 for public and 1 for control monitor will now be 8 for public and 2 650W standard speaker cabinets for control monitors.

HOWEVER I do have a small 650W sub that I can rig with the 650W´s I´ll use for monitors..

 

SO I´ll have 2 (or possibly more depending on what you guys suggest) options.

both big subs at the head of the catwalk and teh small one near the dj so he gets the idea.

1 sub at each end and no smaller sub.

[Wilflet]

is under the stage/catwalk an option?

[ceecrb1]

is under the stage/catwalk an option?

 

only if I can cut my subs to less than 5cm tall ;)

 

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_g6d3PQ6-2jI/TIQb2tHlLfI/AAAAAAAABok/yaAz7hBWVFE/s512/DSC_0352.JPG

 

[Dave SA]

Don't use subs? Surely you can get enough perceived ''sub'' from 8 decent tops with some extreme eq, without eating up all the headroom in the amplifier?

 

Either that or just use your smaller 650w sub... or if you MUST use the larger sub cabinets, only use the one.

[ceecrb1]

Here is my "cheapo" 10min scetch in corel of what I tied to explain in words...

 

I dont think without subs would be an option.. the spanish are REALLY heavy on their subs.. its really fashionable to have (what I think of) a horrible muddy sound... over subbed.. But yeah I agree the job would be fine (and better for me) without!!

This is what I´m thinking of with the subs.. also its a very strange way to group left and right, I know.. but like I said earlier and in the diagram.. right in the centre always to the stage left (from control´s view) sit the client and various guests, world famous designers, politicians, tv presenters etc.. so I try to rig and EQ the system with that location though as the most important (clearly while not destroying other areas just for that area).

 

 

 

 

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_g6d3PQ6-2jI/TSjfqtaNJpI/AAAAAAAAB-w/pVqjAj2Casg/s720/fashwk.jpg

 

 

 

 

Also if any admin/mod feels the desire to correct my "RUG/RIG" typo in the title I wont take it personally ;)

[themadhippy]

Cant you fly the subs on the top/bottom of the array?

Or aint there a manufacterur of some rather nice saounding line arrays fairly local to you? maybe they could assist.

[adamski1010]

Wait a second... Do you mean that last time you just ratchet strapped them to that flying truss.... No flyware or anything?!?!?

Thats definitely a no go. I wouldnt take much vibration to loosen the straps and then you'll have one flat model... which would not be a good thing. II hope that I misunderstood you.

 

Adam

[ceecrb1]

Yes there are other many arrays and standard speakers available..

Spains largest and best sound hire company is only 500mtrs away from our warehouse......

 

 

The problem is as always.. €€€ so I cant hire.

We have in the warehouse:

these 8 1500w sections

4 1500W subs.

6x 650W speakers (2 needed for the models exit point so only 4 available for the entire catwalk.. not enough).

2 650W subs

2 350W speakers

about 30 150W crappy speakers.

 

Unfortunately yes.. the subs were ratcheted to the truss BUT before everyone gets onto me...

They were WELL strapped "over and across" ie front to back and left to right with 2 straps so no chance of escape They were on top of the truss but used their hanging points as security wire points...

and yes they were checked on very regularly!

[Dave SA]

Use the smaller 350w speakers for the models exit point and then you can simply use the point source 650w tops and subs for the audience. Doesn't seem like rocket science, unless you simply dont have what you need for the job, albeit equipment or other resources. No offence.

[smalljoshua]

(Thinking Laterally :blink: ) With the subs in the positions that you have in your diagram, isn't there some scope to do some steering of the sound to be a fig 8 covering the 2 seating areas with the null spot on the catwalk?

 

Josh

[ceecrb1]

No offence.

 

Non taken. I took over this job 2 yrs ago with the "design" done and kit already being used, and therefore agreed in the price and overall design etc.. if I remove wattage they will demand to pay less or at the very least start complaining that they have less than normal.

This is the problem on this job (and a large part spanish society). The client and boss have ALWAYS more "knowledge" than their technicians.

In this country I get very very little freedom to do what I feel is best.. so many times I just have to rig what the client asks for or the boss tells me to.. even if I KNOW it will cause problems.. its just no the same working style as the UK.

 

 

I would 100% agree with you if I had just 2 more 650´s for the control monitors.. I unfortunately work in a lighting company that sees none of the subtleties in sound, where the "boss" bought and chose all the sound gear.... badly, and most of it bought from "his friends" in small local brands/factories.

 

Pretty much feeling a bit mixed between feeling unvalued as a tech and like being stuck between a rock and a hard place... as in the being "obliged" to rig the wrong kit, badly, in the wrong situation.

 

Small josh:

 

yeah I was thinking that.. I havnt actually tried this location yet.. I was thinking facing out towards the public... Ie creating 2 "piggybacked stages"

The null spot also wouldnt bother me.. I have been told very clearly by the "technical director" (event directors mate) that the models only need to hear the beat.... no quality need at all... one of the few aspects to make my life easier.

[smalljoshua]

If you haven't already, download and have a play with EV LAPS. It is designed for EV speakers but is good for playing with working out the spacings and delays between the boxes.

 

Josh

[ceecrb1]

If you haven't already, download and have a play with EV LAPS. It is designed for EV speakers but is good for playing with working out the spacings and delays between the boxes.

 

Josh

 

Yeah that did actually help.. good point.... which also lead me to think...

I currently have one of the subs being re-coned at its manufacturer and will be going to collect it there..

They have in the past offered me "a design software" (not sure what) with their speakers loaded into it to use.. so will push him for a copy, or at least try and get more details on them while I´m there.