Damp Store Room

[jonic222]

Hi all

 

One of the store rooms I have for storing equipment in has a fairly bad damp problem (to the extent that I came back after a couple of months away and there was rust on some stands and mould growing on some cables). It is the only store room I have available to store large items such as our mixers, our cable trunk, a pair of active speakers, lighting and speaker stands, and a whole load of other stuff. At the moment the university won't let me change to a different store room. I'm just wondering firstly whether (or how much) a flight case will protect this equipment - the majority of our cabling, along with our mixer is flightcased. Secondly, if I can get my hands on a dehumidifier how much will that help? Half of the walls in the room are external (and I'd imagine not particularly well built) so I've been told that damp proofing is not an option (certainly on the finances available).

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks!

[mac.calder]

A dehumidifier couldn't hurt..... but it would need to be a decent one. Buy some Silica Gel desiccant packs and throw them into your cable packers and mixer cases as well. You can do rudimentary damp-proofing with black plastic sheeting. It is not an ideal room, but you can make it usable.

[Andrew C]

If you speakers are paper cone, get them out ASAP, followed by the desk. Tell the powers that be what it WILL cost to replace them.

[jonic222]

Thanks for your replies. The powers that be are fully aware that this will cost them if they don't act now, yet they don't seem particularly keen to do anything about it. Anyone know of a relatively cheap place to buy silica gel?

[Simon Lewis]

Silica gel isn't really the answer - it works for small quantities of moisture, but then is saturated and has to be heated to make it active again. If you do want to try it, get the self indicating version that is blue when dry and pink when wet. Flightcasing can help keep damp out, but if it gets into the case, it can effectively seal the samp into the equipment. Your speakers may survive, but may equally get corrosion in the magnet gap, and could well be a write off. Similarly, electrical and electronic parts can be damaged.

I have lost several loudspeaker drivers through exactly this scenario.

 

Probably the better appraoch (although still not ideal) is to heat the store. Get it hot enough for a day or so to help dry it out, and then maintain some level of warmth. It won't stop the damp problem, but it will help stop the damp being such a problem.

 

Simon

[Smiffy]

Very simple. Go to the powers that be with the following Memo

 

(note that the numbers are invented, but you get what I mean)

 

Damp treatment for Store Room: £3,000.00

 

New Equipment: £20,000.00

 

Change Store Rooms: £0.00 (Other than cost of time/labour)

 

I have no idea what the actual numbers would be, as neither sound, nor damp proofing are my 'bag' but a memo along those lines is usually something that will get the accountants to take notice.

 

Cheers

 

 

Smiffy

[kerry davies]

Dehumidifiers cost money to hire/buy and even more to run. From your OP it seems that you visit the store less than frequently and a dehumidifier would simply overflow and concentrate the damp into pools of water.

Heating the room is also expensive and would need adequate ventilation to reduce your problems significantly. Both solutions have drawbacks, not least the environmental and power usage concerns.

 

You may have run into the common difficulty regarding capital and revenue budgetary constraints where they will pay for ongoing but not one-off costs or vice versa. Storage could be a building fabric budget, power supply a facilities budget and equipment an arts budget ... all being fought over by different managers. In a Uni, from bitter experience, it might be entirely different corporate entities arguing the toss.

 

Set out the difficulties, the possible solutions and the compromises entailed then offer as many options as possible. In these times of cutbacks and economic juggling there may well be a "political" agenda being played out of which you know nothing.

[Simon Lewis]

The heating suggestion was made with some of the issues that Kerry raises in mind. Heating can be added 'locally' fairly easily, and I'm guessing they don't meter you separately. The whole problem of Estates, capital budgets and space charging are probably slightly different for each HE institution, but I'm sure you will have your own set of issues!

[Junior8]

Have you had a good look at the space to see if there are any problems other than damp caused simply by chilly external walls - is any water getting in? If it's all water-tight then simple heating like this might do the trick - it is dead cheap to run and is designed for situations like yours. But you'll also need some ventilation - a grille in the door venting into an internal space would be ideal. Damp isn't only caused by humidity the air in the space needs to be 'changed' on a regular basis. Also really think about the storage. Can you put in some racks for the stands etc to leave plenty of room for air circulation.

[jonic222]

Yeah it's damp - there are patches on the walls that look like they've been affected and the rust, mould and smell all seem to be pretty clear signs. I'll talk with the people that matter over the next week or two and see what solutions we can come up with. Thanks for all of your ideas

[cedd]

Heating may not necessarily sort the issue - heating a damp room can often "wick" more water through the walls. Trust me as somebody whose house suffers from damp!

 

My kit store is a well insulated garage with a "room within a room" built from ply with rockwool insulation in the roof and walls, plus a false floor with air space underneath. The room is heated with tubular heaters so it never drops below 10 degrees, it also has a dehumidifier running and plumbed outside for waste water. Finally, and most importantly, fans regularly turn over the air inside the room. Helpful for cooling but also removing the hot moist air from the top of the room, whilst the dehumidifier keeps on top of the new air coming in. It's a very slow cycle so I'm not constantly heating and dehumidifying fresh air unnecessarily.

 

The whole project of building the store probably cost me nearly 4k (albeit I also got a workshop space out of it and wired up a test bench, plus racking). It ain't easy to get right but if my hygrometer and thermometer are anything to go by, this seems to have worked.

 

Condensation is your main enemy, and I've only suffered when kit has been removed from my old store (far less satisfactory) and placed into a warm venue. Remember condensation forms when hot meets cold or vice-versa. Your kit being cold and then becoming warm will also result in it becoming wet!

 

One simple thing that should be done if there really is no other option - allow a warming up period as gear is brought out of the store. Bring it into a warm room, open the flight cases and leave well alone for several hours. Don't power it up! Your kit will still have been cold and damp, so it's not a perfect solution, but this will at least stop it being turned on whilst it's in that damp phase!

 

But agreed, best solution is make a financial case and get it moved! I've always found kit being unavailable for important public events is quite a good lever, even if it's a threat (my personal pride never let me actually prevent a job go ahead to make a point, but you can make the right noises at least!).

[adam2]

As others post, a different storroom or stopping the damp at source would be the best solution, but if this cant be done then a dehumidifer should help very considerably.

Even cheap d0m3stic ones remove a suprising amount of water.

All the units that I have seen stop automaticly when full, no question of overflowing if you omit to empty it. To avoid the need for frequent emptying most dehumidifiers can be plumbed to a drain, or perhaps to a large drum if there is no drain.

 

Dehumdifiers cost from about £100 upwards. Power consumption varies but is usually a few hundred watts. The outlet air is not only dried but slightly warmed.

A dehumidifier works best at normal room temperature, if the room is very cold then a heater may be required initialy, but after a few days the heat from the dehumidifier will often suffice.

 

A portable fan will help to circulate the air to all parts of the room, but wont actually remove damp on its own.

 

Silica gell only works well in air tight containers, not for drying out a room.

[mac.calder]

Silica gell only works well in air tight containers, not for drying out a room.

 

Exactly - it helps inside roadcases (which whilst not air-tight are still quite enclosed). I have used it to good effect, plenty of times.

[Hilary Watts]

+ 1 for Adam2's comments. We have a dehumidifier in our office basement storeroom. It has been running on a timer once or twice a day for over 20 years without any problem. It extracts roughly two thirds of a bucketful of water from the atmosphere every week (more in damp weather) . It's not sophisticated enough to detect when the bucket is full - we just make sure it is emptied once a week. The storeroom door is normally closed, although access is needed two or three times a day so there is some change of air. It feels perfectly dry down there and, as Adam2 says, warmer than it would otherwise be (there is no other heating). There are several metal filing cabinets and sets of shelving down there with no sign of rust. In fact, for the last 8 or 9 years our main fileserver computer has been in there without any apparent problems.

[Ynot]

Well, I've just heard from my mate at the local scenery hire company and due to a burst water pipe they now have £50,000 or so's worth of water damage to their backcloth stock alone! Fortunately I gather the inswerants covers the costs, but there may be a few problems with cloths due out in the coming weeks.....