Paint on Wool surge cloths

[PAL lighting]

Hi Guys,

 

I've recently had an am-dram group put maisonary paint on my wool surge cloths by acident. Does anyone know how to get it off with out ruining the cloths.

 

Cheers

[erroneousblack]

Hi Guys,

 

I've recently had an am-dram group put maisonary paint on my wool surge cloths by acident. Does anyone know how to get it off with out ruining the cloths.

 

Cheers

 

They are ruined, charge them for new ones!

 

EDIT: Thinking on, I've been in the business for 30+ years, done lots of H&S and risk assessment work during that time and firmly believe there is no such thing as an "accident". Just how did masonary paint get onto wool serge cloths by "accident"?

[Jamtastic3]

The two words 'Amdram' and 'accident' in the same sentence says it all......

[smeggie]

By all means charge them for a replacement set,

 

but to somewhat salvage them, in an annoyingly time consuming fashion [really, it's slow], is to shave the top layer off with a suitable implement - it'll never get it all off, but should get something usable out of it.

 

Of course, usual safety methods apply, and you will probably have a very thin bit under the paint, but it might be of use as a 'b' stock kit.

 

Andy

[WiLL]

To be honest the easiest way is to scrape as much as you can off with a stanley blade and then a light spray with a matt black aerosol should cover the remnents.

[ramdram]

Ref the cleaning, then your best bet is to seek pro advice from your local dry cleaners and get a second opinion if the response is that it can't be done. In other words you have done everything reasonable to satisfy a DJ, see further.

 

Moving on from here though, if the loan/hire(?) of your kit was on a commercial basis then it does not seem unreasonable that the damage should be rectified, by the folk who caused the damage.

 

It may very well have been an accident but if you are losing income because you can no longer hire them out then you must be compensated.

 

Our amdram has insurance for this sort of thing...and the hirer of the kit we use is aware of this. The contract states that "we" should be insured against his loss. This amdram should have been insured anyway...it might not have been paint on cloth but beer in the sound desk.

 

Were the case go to the small claims then the DJ would, most probably, weigh it all up and pronounce that accidents happen all the time in life. Hence accidents should be expected and then say on that basis it would have been prudent for the amdram to have obtained accident cover. In fact he may ask why the amdram considered they did not need insurance? Perhaps they do have insurance but do not want to claim for fear of increasing their premiums...so are trying it on with you???

 

In any event the amdram folk are taking the pee somewhat by returning the equipment in a damaged condition anyway!!! The implication being that it was an accident and therefore you can let us off and bear the costs of repair/replacement yourself.

 

If the case does go to court you would be wise NOT to touch the paint marks on the grounds that somebody claimed that YOU were not cleaning the item properly and YOU damaged the cloth further. This is why the advice/diagnosis from the dry cleaner would be useful in court.

 

Your best bet is to write to the Chair of the amdram; state your case and ask what they intend to do about the damage...that sort of thing usually focuses the mind.

 

Your options from then on would depend on their response.

 

But, as always, you really need to get pro advice from your solicitor/Citizens Advice..."we" can only suggest what you might try.

 

HTH

[w/robe]

My first thought was to over paint it but it depends how much damage there is.

 

If the paint is just on the face could you unpick and re-hem them so that you use what is now the back? Depending on how deep your boarders are you will probably not have to move the ties to the other side.

[erroneousblack]

This amdram should have been insured anyway...it might not have been paint on cloth but beer in the sound desk.

 

Admitting allowing alcohol to be consumed in technical areas, would pretty much cancell any insurance claim!

[PAL lighting]

Hi Guys,

 

I've recently had an am-dram group put maisonary paint on my wool surge cloths by acident. Does anyone know how to get it off with out ruining the cloths.

 

Cheers

 

They are ruined, charge them for new ones!

 

EDIT: Thinking on, I've been in the business for 30+ years, done lots of H&S and risk assessment work during that time and firmly believe there is no such thing as an "accident". Just how did masonary paint get onto wool serge cloths by "accident"?

 

The Paint was what they had touched up their set with and it was still wet, they got it onto the stage before I had a chance to tell them not to unload it.

 

thanks for the advise guys

[SuziQ]

Hi Guys,

 

I've recently had an am-dram group put maisonary paint on my wool surge cloths by acident. Does anyone know how to get it off with out ruining the cloths.

 

Cheers

 

 

Hi

 

It is important to know that what is put onto the surface of Flame Retardant Fabrics tend to be what burns and will invalidate your fire certificate, hence why drapes need to be kept free from dust etc.

 

My suggestion would be for you to send them to a professional dry cleaner/FR company - Gort Services is one in Manchester and ask them if they are able to re-clean and have them retested to BS FR rating.

 

Speak to Alan Talbot.

 

If he can't do it then, unfortunately you will need new ones.

[paulears]

Suzi - surely you don't mean you scrap it because you can't have it professionally proofed? What's wrong with the proprietary DIY chemicals that many people spray their cloths with? I know plenty of people who do their own, and then simply sign them off. Nothing wrong with that. If the people who apply the stuff in the venue are diligent, and follow the quantity per sq metre advice then I can't see a problem. Fire safety wise, most venues self-certificate nowadays for everything anyway.

[SuziQ]

Suzi - surely you don't mean you scrap it because you can't have it professionally proofed? What's wrong with the proprietary DIY chemicals that many people spray their cloths with? I know plenty of people who do their own, and then simply sign them off. Nothing wrong with that. If the people who apply the stuff in the venue are diligent, and follow the quantity per sq metre advice then I can't see a problem. Fire safety wise, most venues self-certificate nowadays for everything anyway.

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

The FR solutions are ofcourse a great way of retreating fabrics that are not FR, however, this is dependant on the person who FR's the product and ensures he/she has evenly spread the solution and yes is diligent when applying this. Also, you have to consider the construction of the fabric, will the solution actually penetrate the fibres or will it just sit on top of the surface etc. I assume this method will sit on top of the fibre, especially paint, as the paint/size creates a seal when it touches the fabric.

 

I still personally think the safest option for anyone is to go down the professional FR company, as you will also have an independant certification and the assurance that the fabric has actually been tested to BS5867 Part 2b - 2008. There is a good chance that once the Wool Serge, with it being Durable, once cleaned would still retain it's Durable Flame Retardancy, but that would be for a Flame Proofer to confirm.

[w/robe]

It is important to know that what is put onto the surface of Flame Retardant Fabrics tend to be what burns and will invalidate your fire certificate, hence why drapes need to be kept free from dust etc.

 

Suzi

 

I may be getting the wrong end of the stick here but are you saying that the paint is in its self a problem as if so what about all those painted cloths that are flying in and out in just about every venue in the country?

[Richard the chandler]

It may be worth having a look at what it says on profiles here Ladies and Gents.

 

Suzi clearly works for a company working in that sort of area of the industry, and whilst would have a terific knowledge of fire retadants might also be inclined to suggest her companies services in exactly the same way that I'd be inclined to say that Flints is the best at something or other.

 

Our Flints stance on this is that whilst the vast overwhelming majority of paints used in the industry are not regarded as fire retardant in the cases of flown cloths the actual amount of paint on them is very small. Therefore scenic companies view it as the norm. I'd say that probably only 2-5% of the scenic paint that we sell is rated to class 0 or 1.

 

A far more important matter in most eyes is the use of bulky flamable materials for sculpting the fake landscapes or creating texture which certainly do need to be treated (normally with a binder or sealed in with a top coat) as the amount of material which is there that could catch fire is obviously greatly more if your talking about a rockface than a painted cloth.

 

I know this all sounds terribly strange but as I said it is the norm, I've never heard of anybody treating a painted cloth with fire retardants.

 

It is important to know that what is put onto the surface of Flame Retardant Fabrics tend to be what burns and will invalidate your fire certificate, hence why drapes need to be kept free from dust etc.

Suzi

 

I may be getting the wrong end of the stick here but are you saying that the paint is in its self a problem as if so what about all those painted cloths that are flying in and out in just about every venue in the country?

[ramdram]

Fire retardant paint additive:

 

http://www.rosco.com/uk/scenic/flamex/flamex_PA.cfm

 

and with usual disclaimers:

 

http://www.rosco.com/uk/directory/dealer.cfm

 

(the brilliant thing about this forum is it brings up all sorts of stuff I would not, normally, get involved in...never heard of rosco before.)

 

Our amdram uses emulsion which, being water based, is just assumed to be reluctant to burn anyway:

 

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index...06030745AAxmHIK

 

second para; so that's all right then. (Google for Approved Document B for more gen.)