What switch to get?

[andyray]

Hi guys,

I'm doing VJ performances and I want to buy a video switcher but there's too many different types available, and I need your help to choose.

 

My usual setup is like this:

Two laptops DVI or D-SUB VGA out

DVD player component or s-video

sometimes composite live camera input

 

I've been using an edirol V-8 mixer with build in scan converters but I don't have access to it any more and I though a switch would be more sensible for my use than a mixer. The only thing I used it for was switching between sources... I don't need transitions or anything fancy, I'm doing all my effects in software now, so buying a new V-8 for £1300 would be an overkill and I would get locked down to SD reslution.

 

Now, the question:

• for under a £1000 what switcher/scaler can I get that can switch between all the above mentioned inputs without making the projectors re-sync? remote rs232 is a plus but not necessity as are fades
  

 

 

thanks

[jason5d]

try an edirol v4

[andyray]

try an edirol v4

 

I'm sorry but that doesn't really answer the question. If I buy an edirol v4 I need to use 2 external scan converters with it. I had a chance to try out the Analog Way octo-fx and I liked the concept, but don't need that many inputs and outs, and effects/etc, and don't need the seamless transitions either, I don't mind if it dissolves to black then goes to new input. Is there anything that can do the basic switching/scaling without the unnecessary extras and huge price tag.

[JazzAV]

It might be worth having a look around for a second hand analog way smart cut 2 or something, if you purely need a simple scaler that will give you a seamless switch.

 

I had a quick check and there is one on ebay. Obviously you'll need to decide if it will work for what you need and if you are happy to go that route.

 

Just a suggestion.

 

(To be clear I have nothing to do with that auction, just thought I would check it out.)

[jason5d]

Good idea! A second hand analog way switcher/scaler will cost less than £1000,

probably less than £500. Keep an eye on ebay for analogue way switchers - will cover you for high rez and a very good make too.

[sleepytom]

Extron and kramer also both make suitable products, as do TVOne.

 

http://www.kramerelectronics.co.uk/product...d=381&sf=58 would do the job nicely and is less than the price of a V4.

 

if you want something ultraportable then the TVOne http://www.tvone.com/c2-2200a-main.shtml looks good

[cameroncoats]

Extron make a 4x4 (vga) matrix switcher, for about £400

RS-232 controllable as well.

I use one for VJ'ing because its to hand and vj mixers are extortionate.

[andyray]

Extron make a 4x4 (vga) matrix switcher, for about £400

RS-232 controllable as well.

I use one for VJ'ing because its to hand and vj mixers are extortionate.

 

that sounds great. I have an Extron switcher (althought it's being repaired atm), the only problem I have with it is that every time I select a new source, it renders the projector to re-lock to the new device's sync. It would be OK, but some projectors have OSDs that come up when syncing, my philips has a progress bar for example in bright green.

 

can you confirm that the 4x4matrix switcher keeps the sync when you select a new source? The price would be awesome, and I can build a custom controller to it based on the Arduino controller. It would be a lot better solution for me than a V-8 mixer.

[soundspider]

Kramer VP-436xl has VGA and HDMI ins as well as composite, component and s-video, and both VGA and HDMI outs. Does nice seamless switching too, and you can get them for under £650 new. It stays locked on to the projector without having to re-sync each time and its RS232 controllable. Only issue might be only one VGA in and you may need 2, but a wee converter might sort that for you if you have DVI outs.

 

Alan

[stevefez]

Kramer VP-436xl

My bold.

Simply the VP-436, not xl, if I'm correct. There is a 437xl, but not 436. Minor point, but in terms of googling, quite an important one. [/pedant]

[soundspider]

Yes, you're right, sorry - I was thinking of the 719/720/724xl which have kinda been superceded by the 436 range. My bad!

[Pete McCrea]

Based on the experience of the last few weeks, I'd suggest Kramer or Extron over the alternative brands. The Analog Way stuff has in the past had a tendency for the front panel to separate from the rest of the body - several rental companies have moved from them to alternatives due to the build quality. Not necessarily an issue if it's lightly used by you, but something to look out for in an ex-rental used unit.

 

The Extron units sometimes have an option to either sync to the input selected, or from their own internal sync. Might be worth double checking if that option exists on the unit in question. I also remember being screwed over by this with an OctoFX on a gig a while ago - it takes sync from IP1 IIRC, so if you don't put a source on that input then the sync can get all screwy... Been a long time since I used AW stuff. Thankfully.

[sleepytom]

A little harsh perhaps there Pete but I broadly agree that the AW products are somewhat less intuitive than extron / kramer products.

 

As to sync loss issues then the story is the same as it always has been - to get clean switching requires sources to be syncronised, either by using house reference (genlock) or by having internal TBC / frame syncs in the switcher.

 

"Matrix switchers" generally do not have TBCs and require synchronised sources for glitch free operation.

"seamless switchers" as they are known normally have internal frame syncs and TBCs so you can use non-synchronised sources and still have a seamless transition between sources, some of these sswitchers will sync to an input others will reclock everything to an internally generated timebase. (both these approaches have positive and negative aspects - better equipment will let the user decide where to take the sync from and thus allow you to integrate the product into the environment in the most appropriate fashion)

 

Having said that I've found that the extron RGBHV routers with ADSP are "near seamless" providing you have all the sources and destinations using the same resolutions and refresh rate. You probably wouldn't want to do a corporate gig like this but for VJing it will be fine.

[Pete McCrea]

A little harsh perhaps there Pete but I broadly agree that the AW products are somewhat less intuitive than extron / kramer products.

 

The statement was mainly on build quality. I can give the names of two Rental companies locally, that have moved from AW to Kramer/Barco/Extron due to the units falling a part multiple times. I won't name names on a public forum. Obviously the fact that they were used by rental companies and not private individuals will affect the 'quality' of handling, which I would suspect that a privat individual will treat with more care.

 

All the manufacturers all have their idiosyncrasies in terms of menu structures, some of which I prefer or use more than others.

[andyandy]

We use a Kramer VP-720XL seamless switcher which we're very happy with - has 2 VGA inputs, DVI, SVHS and composite that we use plus a few others too