Lighting a very, very small stage question

[noire]

Hi folks

 

Just wanted to pic your brains if I may and hopefully come away with a solution!

 

We have a small portable marionette theatre with a very small stage and I have been given conflicting advice about the lighting of it. As a complete novice we had opted for a set of 4 par 16's operated off a 'Showtec Party Dimmer' as we were told this can come from a single domestic supply. One 'qualified' professional said that we can run all 4 lights of this at the same time whilst the other advised us that a max of 2 at full load can be used at once?? Then, to put another into the mix we were also told it would be better to use 12v LEDs but were told by the other that this is a bad idea as they cannot be regulated by dimmer control! (Arghhhhh)

 

The stage is extremely small so we don't need a lot of light but need to control the different mood setting which are essential for the puppetry.

 

So, my question is:

1. Can the Party Dimmer be used on a domestic supply with 4 lights used at the same time?
   

Sorry to waffle on about something I know nothing about! Hope there is help out there :D

 

Cheers

[paulears]

PAR16s are limited by the lamp size, and I've never seen one that's more than 50W - so 4 of these is a tiny fraction of the power you have available.

[LXbydesign]

In other words, YES you can EASILY run those of a little dimmer straight from a 13a supply. Whoever said you cant clearly dosent know what there're talking about.

 

So long as YOU have given us the correct info and they are not actually PAR 64's !!

[Andrew C]

Showtec party dimmer 600W per channel, so PAR16s will be fine. Be aware that the mains rated (240V) lamps have a poor lifespan, but the 12V ones need a transformer. Not all transformers are dimmable.

 

Some LEDs can be dimmed, but not necessarily nicely.

[noire]

Thanks guys for the quick response!

 

Yes, they definatley are the little par16's (there isn't the room for anything bigger!)

[jonathanhill]

PAR16s are limited by the lamp size, and I've never seen one that's more than 50W

You can get 75W MR16 lamps as well. However they would still be fine for the OP's dimmers. My advice would be to not listen to the 'professionals' advice again. They clearly do not know what they are talking about.

[boatman]

It should also be pointed out that LED lanterns must not be connected to any sort of dimmer. They require hard power and a controller, which would usually have a DMX output.

[timsabre]

It should also be pointed out that LED lanterns must not be connected to any sort of dimmer. They require hard power and a controller, which would usually have a DMX output.

Only true for DMX LED lanterns with built in dimming control, incorrect when discussing Par 16's. You can get LED Par 16's which are just the lamp and a tiny mains power supply, some of these can be dimmed, depending on the mains power supply unit.

[Ynot]

Hi and welcome to the Blue Room.

 

Now, I'm a little bemused by the choice of control, though that being said I don't know of any more suitable options - I suspect there may be, though.

 

The reason for my bemusement is that you're talking of a marionette/puppet theatre, so by very small, I assume you're talking of the order of a few fett in width etc, rather than tens of feet.

 

In that case, then yes, the MR16/Par 16 or birdies (as we call them) should be more than adequate for the task. You don't have to go down the actual par route (there are a number of different fittings for the MR16 type lamp - check CPC and other suppliers for options) but they would probably look the part if you do.

 

To control 4 of these at low voltage (50W is the most common, though you can get lower powered lamps down I believe to 20W) with a mains dimmer/controller MAY give you problems as some don't like such a small load, especially the budget end of the market. It might therefore be a wise move to investigate something that can dim 12v fittings - As I say I don't know of any, but others might.

BUT be aware that if you do use 50W lamps, they'll draw around 4 amps when full, thus you'll need a decent cable to supply them, whether driving direct from an LV controller or via transformers from a mains unit.

[Jivemaster]

OK lots of good advice above, but I'll throw in another choice which also has some benefits.

 

Take a NJD 8000 series lighting controller, The dimmer unit has 4 channels rated at ten amps each 40 amps total if you feed it with enough power and cable. A special feature of these (aged) units if that the controller board and the dimmer board inside the 3U case can be run off separate power rails as long as they are in phase. SO If you insert a suitable transformer into the case -there's likely room for most transformers, you can feed mains to the control board (which it needs) and your choice of LV into the dimmer board. The benefit of this is that you don't have to use mains par 16s which have a silly short life, and you don't have to select transformers for their dimming suitability.

 

By this means you can have a 12v birdie rig with four channels of manual dimming limited to 10 amps (120 watts) per channel. As it really is a disco controller chaser you will get some chase patterns there as well!

 

Added; a quick search of ebay for NJD 8000 brings uo a page of these dimmers and Item number: 400141072607 is only one of them. Even ebay may not be the only supplier.

[RoyJ]

As a previous owner of the party dimmer,I feel you ougfht to bear in mind the very poor dimmer curve coming on at about 4 and at full brightness at full.My concerns are, that the dimmer may not be able to cope with the low load in which case a load lamp will have to be added, amd two that the dimmer may not be able to give you the dimmer curve you want or need.In fact, I've replaced this unit with an old furse dimmer which has a better dimmer resonce,i.e. 0=0.The moral of the story is you pay for what you get,so it might be worth getting a transcenion DMX dimmer pack with a DMX 6 way board.This rack is powered off a 13a plug and is the main source of dimming we use.Hope this helps,regards Roy