Portable Cool Concert Stage Lighting

[LightEnsemble]

Hi, I am trying to find portable lighting suitable for a concert stage for a small choir of 20 singers and am drawing a complete blank. I hope someone in the theatre stage world in this form can advise at least the right type of lighting and the terms I need to search the internet for.

The lighting should preferably be

1.Cool running (LED for example) so we can pack up within 20 mins of finishing concert without damage to bulbs

2.on telescopic stands to get the light over the shoulders of the performers and that can go in the back of a saloon car when collapsed.

3.Something that ideally looks vaguely presentable to a concert audience e.g. not hard core "scafolding" stage lighting.

4 It has to be floor standing as we have no where to hang lights and work off standard 13amp 240vs or come with a power supply that will plug into same. We have considered wall washers but have no experienceof how effective/portable these are.

currently we have a few cheap uplighters dotted round the stage , look great but not really effective in getting light onto singers music. Our regular Venue does have two large white walls behind us fit for wall washers if they are effective.

 

Any help to the "lighting" challenged from the experts would be most appreciated. Regards

[Dodgecaliber]

Quite simply,

 

 

 

Four LED par cans on T stands. Get two sets, one for each side of the stage and your done.

 

 

Cheap, cool running and very simple to operate.

 

 

 

 

 

Dodge

[Junior8]

Dont forget that a) lighting the choir and b)enabling them to see what they are doing are two different objectives. Forget the Internet I'd try to find a local supplier with a decent sales consultant prepared to bring out some kit for demonstation purposes. Only someone who can see exactly what you want/are trying to do can really advise you.

[Brian]

Four LED par cans on T stands. Get two sets, one for each side of the stage and your done.

 

I disagree and here's why...

 

 

Founder member of small classical choir based in North London Interested in portable concert platform lighting for 20 singers and small ensemble portable lighting.

 

...suitable for a concert stage for a small choir of 20 singers...

...to get the light over the shoulders of the performers...

...look great but not really effective in getting light onto singers music...

 

I'd suggest that LEDs, or at least those you can afford, are not the way to go. The budget units have a much too narrow beam angle to get the coverage you want.

 

Reading your post would suggest you want light both from the front and the back (to read the music).

 

To get light onto the music over peoples heads and shoulders you will need tall stands. At least 3.5m units if not 4.5m. I do a few of this type of event and I now use Powerdrive 4.5m stands with a single 500W flood with barndoors on the top of each one. Being as visible as the choir itself it needs to look nice and without a bulky T-bar on top they don't look that bad. I usually stick one on the centre line directly behind the choir and one either side at about 45 - 60 degrees from the centre. The triple section stands fit comfortably into a normal hatchback. And replacement lamps, if you lose one, are cheap.

 

Do you have a conductor? If so, any light from the front will also need to come in from high. My experience is that choirs really don't like light being shone in their eyes. LED PARs are not nice to directly look at. My personal choice are small 650W fresnels, two pairs rigged on two tall stands with shortened T-bars and with barndoors.

[LightEnsemble]

Quite simply,

 

 

 

Four LED par cans on T stands. Get two sets, one for each side of the stage and your done.

 

 

Cheap, cool running and very simple to operate.

 

 

 

 

 

Dodge

 

Hi, Thanks for the info on LED based lights, will check those out.

[niclights]

Hi, Thanks for the info on LED based lights, will check those out.

Make sure you get a demo. I think you'll be disappointed.

 

I'm with Brian on this. Only the most expensive LED fixtures are likely to fulfill all your requirements and for that you could buy thousands of replacement lamps.

[LightEnsemble]

Four LED par cans on T stands. Get two sets, one for each side of the stage and your done.

 

I disagree and here's why...

 

 

Founder member of small classical choir based in North London Interested in portable concert platform lighting for 20 singers and small ensemble portable lighting.

 

...suitable for a concert stage for a small choir of 20 singers...

...to get the light over the shoulders of the performers...

...look great but not really effective in getting light onto singers music...

 

I'd suggest that LEDs, or at least those you can afford, are not the way to go. The budget units have a much too narrow beam angle to get the coverage you want.

 

Reading your post would suggest you want light both from the front and the back (to read the music).

 

To get light onto the music over peoples heads and shoulders you will need tall stands. At least 3.5m units if not 4.5m. I do a few of this type of event and I now use Powerdrive 4.5m stands with a single 500W flood with barndoors on the top of each one. Being as visible as the choir itself it needs to look nice and without a bulky T-bar on top they don't look that bad. I usually stick one on the centre line directly behind the choir and one either side at about 45 - 60 degrees from the centre. The triple section stands fit comfortably into a normal hatchback. And replacement lamps, if you lose one, are cheap.

 

Do you have a conductor? If so, any light from the front will also need to come in from high. My experience is that choirs really don't like light being shone in their eyes. LED PARs are not nice to directly look at. My personal choice are small 650W fresnels, two pairs rigged on two tall stands with shortened T-bars and with barndoors.

 

Hi Brian,

Many thanks for the detailed info and comments on the LED type lighting of which I have no experience.

Yes we have a conductor who also plays chamber organ centre stage front facing the choir plus there is often a small early instrument orchestra with us as well.

Not blinding him or the band is a top priority, we come second! The band have their own individual stand lights so we dont have to light them.

Prob impossible to light from the front due to tiny space between stage and imoveable front row seats.Placing on front corners blocks stage access for performers.

1 x centre plus one either side 45/60 angle from behind sounds good with barn doors to prevent blinding people.

What is the heat situation with the fresnels?

a) are they ok to leave on for 3 to 5 hrs hrs continuiously as some of our rehearsals go into the concert with vert no break.

b) How long do they take to cool down roughy to be safe enought to derig and pack away?

Power draw for something like 650 watts is a bit of concern with the usual dodgy church wiring. Will need to invest in real real mans thick extention cable drum to avoid overheating cables!

Re the powerdrive lighting stands. they dont appear to have ratchets to raise the lights from the internet images I have found so assume multi hole up the pole and shove lockoff pin through at appropriate height?

Thanks again for your insight.

Regards

Mike

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Dont forget that a) lighting the choir and b)enabling them to see what they are doing are two different objectives. Forget the Internet I'd try to find a local supplier with a decent sales consultant prepared to bring out some kit for demonstation purposes. Only someone who can see exactly what you want/are trying to do can really advise you.

 

Hi Junior8,

Excellent observation re a and b. We are definitely after b.

Agree with you 100% regarding gettign in a lighting specialist company who can see the venue/advise hire or demo us the options.

My aim here is to use forms like this to get enough basic fundamental knowledge from people in the industry for me to know when I am dealing with a company with knowledgeable real lighting reps or someone who is just trying to flog me the latest gizmo.

Regards

Mike

[church]

I regularly light a choir of thirty singers on a small portable stage set up in gymnasiums, church halls and schools etc..

 

In my view there are three things that you need to achieve - others will have their own views which are equally valid:

 

1) the audience wants to see the choir and sense the mood from the lighting. the conductor wants to see the choir.

2) the singers need to be able to see their music which requires lighting from behind and above to avoid shadows.

3) the singers and the pianist (musicians) need to be able to see the conductors hands and face.

 

I have never been able to do this with only a couple of par cans on two stands I would not even try. I light this as a temporary stage 25 feet wide and 20 feet deep with the conductor at the front and the pianist at the side. I use two stands at the rear with a light duty truss between the stands with floods distributed acroos them with medium frost on them to avoid dazzling the audience because I angle these to throw light forward to light up the singers music. Works good when your stands get you fifteen feet in the air the rear row of singers are directly in front of these stands. I have just replaced the floods with linear lamps with LED wash lights 48*3W LEDs in RGBW which works great. At the front I originally uses one stand each side of the stage with fresnels set to flood I needed four each side. For solos I used a 50 degree S4 at each side to light a solo spot in front of the choir. I also use a small fresnel (200W) each side to light the conductor from the sides - the small lamps avoid dazzling the conductor and I can run them at 100% but give a crisp white light to allow everyone to see the conductors hands. I have now switched to a 32 foot truss at the front as it allows me to getmore even light distribution.

 

I admit this is not cheap but I can change the colours to vary the mood with the music and achieve the three goals. The audiences give positive comments, the singers give positive comments and the conductor gives positive comments - took me a couple of concerts to figure it out but it works, I can set up in two hours and I can run it all off a stove plug (100A on 120V supply) which here in North America you find in kitchens.

[paulears]

We've gone from 2 stands and 2 T-bars to a 32 foot front truss in just a few posts!

 

I think, based on the OPs comments that they want simplicity and small packdown footprint?

 

If you want the lighting to light the choir, for the audience's benefit, then you need front light.

If you want the lighting to light the choir's music, then you need back light.

 

The reality is you probably need both! Tall stands in front of the choir to light their faces and not blind them - as Brian says - need height - and, if they cannot be that far into the audience, they need very wide sources.

 

Usually when faced with this kind of problem, the user is driven to two options, quite simple ones.

1. Compromise the equipment. So scrap the front light, and hope that rear light will be enough, coupled with whatever light might be on in the venue. So maybe the audience lighting will be enough to pick out faces? The back light means they can sing, and the audience get the nice glow on their hair and shoulders. The downside is that anyone with a video camera will notice you cannot see the faces.

2. Compromise your budget! As in multiply it quite a bit and do it properly - it will also compromise your transport - more lights, more cables, more big stands.

 

The choice for people like us is obvious - No.2 all the way and blow the problems. It's not, however, our choice at all. We don't have to pay for the kit. Costs wise, a couple of decent, efficient wide angle Fresnels will set you back around £400 for the pair (and will be cool enough to pack away after 10 mins or so) perched on top of something like these

 

If you want to dim them, add more money for a dimming system and control and it goes on and on.

 

However, two Fresnels out front, and maybe some of the cheaper LED washes as back light could work for you, just permanently 'on'. After all - if your choir configuration remains relatively constant, you set up with the same footprint in each venue - you just switch on and leave it.

 

What I'd suggest is talking to one of the companies who hire and sell kit and ask their advice. Maybe they would hire/lend some kit for you to experiment with and then you could simply buy whatever system you find works?

 

Don't worry about having to wait to put things away. Kill the power, lower the stands, put away the cables, pack away your stands, and by then they'll be cool enough to put away.

[Junior8]

3) the singers and the pianist (musicians) need to be able to see the conductors hands and face.

 

Some musicians of my acquaintance would take leave to doubt this!

 

I'll bet big problem with all this is the usual one with small venues - lack of height which makes it very difficult to achieve Church's 2 & 3 without real dazzle problems for the audience. You don't say whether there is any lighting at all above the platform or whether you only work in one venue. Any advice I could give you would depend on that. If you only work in one venue the best solution might be to see what you might be able to do with permanent installation of simple brackets and bars doing without the stands altogether - there are all sorts of simple components available which don't involve trusswork etc. then you could get the sources where you want without worrying about the footprint of the stands.

 

I'd agree with Paul about hiring - this is my invariable advice in such circumstances. In the case of one venue spend the most you can afford on the infrastructure rent the lanterns.

 

The plain fact is though that without seeing the space/ power supply situation nobody can really advise you.

[LightEnsemble]

I regularly light a choir of thirty singers on a small portable stage set up in gymnasiums, church halls and schools etc..

 

In my view there are three things that you need to achieve - others will have their own views which are equally valid:

 

1) the audience wants to see the choir and sense the mood from the lighting. the conductor wants to see the choir.

2) the singers need to be able to see their music which requires lighting from behind and above to avoid shadows.

3) the singers and the pianist (musicians) need to be able to see the conductors hands and face.

 

I have never been able to do this with only a couple of par cans on two stands I would not even try. I light this as a temporary stage 25 feet wide and 20 feet deep with the conductor at the front and the pianist at the side. I use two stands at the rear with a light duty truss between the stands with floods distributed acroos them with medium frost on them to avoid dazzling the audience because I angle these to throw light forward to light up the singers music. Works good when your stands get you fifteen feet in the air the rear row of singers are directly in front of these stands. I have just replaced the floods with linear lamps with LED wash lights 48*3W LEDs in RGBW which works great. At the front I originally uses one stand each side of the stage with fresnels set to flood I needed four each side. For solos I used a 50 degree S4 at each side to light a solo spot in front of the choir. I also use a small fresnel (200W) each side to light the conductor from the sides - the small lamps avoid dazzling the conductor and I can run them at 100% but give a crisp white light to allow everyone to see the conductors hands. I have now switched to a 32 foot truss at the front as it allows me to getmore even light distribution.

 

I admit this is not cheap but I can change the colours to vary the mood with the music and achieve the three goals. The audiences give positive comments, the singers give positive comments and the conductor gives positive comments - took me a couple of concerts to figure it out but it works, I can set up in two hours and I can run it all off a stove plug (100A on 120V supply) which here in North America you find in kitchens.

 

Hi,

Thanks for the info but the scale of what you describe will be physically too big for us to be able to set up and derig in the time available principally as the "team" doing it

(once we have gone through the hire processe sufficient to agree what we need) will be two of the singers (myself + 1) who are involved in the rehearsals and other musical prep.

as well which means it must be up and fitted within 1 to 1.5hrs tops. It also has to collapse and fit in a standard sallon/hatchback which in the UK is a lot smaller that those stateside.

Regards

Mike

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

3) the singers and the pianist (musicians) need to be able to see the conductors hands and face.

 

Some musicians of my acquaintance would take leave to doubt this!

 

I'll bet big problem with all this is the usual one with small venues - lack of height which makes it very difficult to achieve Church's 2 & 3 without real dazzle problems for the audience. You don't say whether there is any lighting at all above the platform or whether you only work in one venue. Any advice I could give you would depend on that. If you only work in one venue the best solution might be to see what you might be able to do with permanent installation of simple brackets and bars doing without the stands altogether - there are all sorts of simple components available which don't involve trusswork etc. then you could get the sources where you want without worrying about the footprint of the stands.

 

I'd agree with Paul about hiring - this is my invariable advice in such circumstances. In the case of one venue spend the most you can afford on the infrastructure rent the lanterns.

 

The plain fact is though that without seeing the space/ power supply situation nobody can really advise you.

 

Hi,

Some good suggestions here.

Yep we mainly do one venue and agree best if we can lose the stands on the ground. Cost of installing simple but effective lighting in the building could be the answer although

stuffs us if we perform elsewhere which we sometimes do so still lokking for a simple but effective portable solution.

We are lucky as height is not an issue a good 30 feet over concert stage.

Agree also 100% about hiring to ensure we get what will do the job but boy trying to find someone who does things other than rock concerts and discos in our local area is proving a challenge!

Regards

Mike