10 or 12 hour day?

[satma]

Hi,

 

I'm a new av tech that does small corporate conferences, these jobs are usually 10hour day jobs which I charge £180 but am now starting to get bigger events and live shows.

I just want to clarify if a 10hour day is a standard freelance day or is it 12hours. And if it is 10hours then do I charge £18 for every hour over or does 12hours count as day and a half?

[paulears]

This recent topic is worth a read.

 

There's really no such thing as a standard. 10 hours seems quite common - but as people are freelance, it's up to them to determine their own limit, and rates for working over what is already a long day.

 

My own rates never actually state exact hours. If you start to mess around converting things to hourly rates, then you're kind of no longer in self-employed territory. Me being not that keen to work over 10 hours, my own rate takes a BIG hike, designed to hopefully get extra people in - which of course, I can easily arrange. But if they really insist on me being there, then it's going to cost 'em!

[Grum]

How long a day is depends on many factors such as;

 

How much work I'm going to be expected to do

How quickly I'm likely to get paid

How much work I get / am likely to get

How much fun the job is likely to be

 

So if I don't like the show, there's loads of equipment to rig, it's a one off event for people I don't know who've only just started, in a cold muddy, wet field in November for people that want 90 day terms then it's going to cost you £600 per day regardless of the length of the day.

 

However, if it's a band I enjoy listening to, for a 5 week tour, with an easy to rig floor pack, freedom to do what I want with the equipment and I'll be working with a bunch of people whose company I really enjoy AND I'm likely to get paid within 7 days of invoicing then I'm going to be a lot happier working for £200 for an 18 hour day.

[satma]

cheers for that paul and grum. Bectu state different baseline rates for 10 and 12 hour days but I guess it isn't as cut and dry, and there are those factors mentioned above. One company has shifted the goalposts from 30day to 60day terms so in this case I'll have to increase my rate regardless of hours. Waiting 2months to get paid is pretty much criminal especially when budgeting for the rent knowing you've done the time that month but have nowt to show for it.

[Dodgecaliber]

I'd say a freelance shift is more like a 24hr day!

[Pete McCrea]

Watch out for the flaming Dodge!

[David Lee]

As with others, I set the rate per job/ client. I am always more flexible for a client if I enjoy the job/ crew and we are treated well.

 

Hourly rates just don't work (as Paulears says, you will be moving into employee status).

 

Base it on basic rate, then basic + 50% then basic + 100%. If anybody wants you to work silly hours quote silly prices.

 

On an aside, can you put your basic rate up as £180 is below the norm think £200 - £225 as a start or you will make the rest of us look bad :)

 

edit to add - As I am now over 40 I am more inclined to have a base of 10 hours rather than 12 hours. just not as young as I still think I am :(

[LXbydesign]

- but you still look late twenties Dave!! hehe

 

I would be ok with going with 10-12 hours on a standerd daily rate but thats working mostly up until 11pm. After that it depends on length of time needed, allocated time for break etc

 

As mentioned, it also depends on the job itself and where / who your working with.

 

I did a gig yesterday for an 8 hour call which was stupidly over specced by the production company in terms of kit needed and crew. I was Lx chief for a crew of 4 just to rig 7 rooms with 2 manfottos c/w 2 x source 4's on them running back to a little dimmer / desk.

 

Full daily rate and paid travel and great food/drink provided!!!

 

Wish they were all like that... :)

[MarkA74]

On an aside, can you put your basic rate up as £180 is below the norm think £200 - £225 as a start or you will make the rest of us look bad ;)

 

That's interesting, as most of the freelancers that we book for events charge anything between £165 & £180 per day.

 

Only the odd one or two ask for £200 +.

 

When I first became a freelancer I charged £160 because that's what the going rate was. When I went freelance last time I charged £180, but would reduce it to £165 if booked for 3 consecutive days or longer, as I decided that I'd rather have 3 days of £165 p/day, than 0 days at £180!

[David Lee]

Haven't seen those kind of rates for many years. Last job I was on (last week - week long job) was £225 a day + PDs and travel allowances. Next job is going out at £250 per day for a week. This is pretty standard for AV techs in the area I work in (UK & Worldwide conference). Obviously if you are happy with your guys then you are getting a good deal there ;)

[RumbleO]

On an aside, can you put your basic rate up as £180 is below the norm think £200 - £225 as a start or you will make the rest of us look bad ;)

That's interesting, as most of the freelancers that we book for events charge anything between £165 & £180 per day.

 

Only the odd one or two ask for £200 +. <snip>

Are we seeing the difference between London-based (Cambs/Suffolk) and Biirmingham, based (North Warwickshire) companies?

[sleepytom]

Freelance what though? (corporate AV tech will be charging more than a local theatrical lighting guy)

 

£160 is very little for a skilled worker. It's OK if your just following someone's plan and don't have to deal with the client or adapt to their last minuet changes. But I'd expect any skilled tech to be charging at least £200 /day. (you'll most likely be being charged to client at £300+ corporate AV rates anyway )

 

How much do plumbers charge? (+ call out, + tools, +extra for making that tooth sucking noise!)

 

Discounts for longer periods make some sense, but I often find that the jobs with 4 days in a row are the ones where day 2 becomes an 18h marathon to "get it all done" in time for an extra rehearsal that nobody knew about! Fine if your on an agreement which has overtime, but I've been burnt a few times with agreed "day rate" without having agreed "day length".

 

whatever happened to +Travel and +PDs ?? seems to be increasingly hard to get paid these kind of "extras", all the more reason to try and stop your basic rate from getting eroded too.

[David Lee]

Are we seeing the difference between London-based (Cambs/Suffolk) and Biirmingham, based (North Warwickshire) companies?

 

One would hope not.

 

Freelance what though? (corporate AV tech will be charging more than a local theatrical lighting guy)

 

Couldn't agree more. Looking at MarkA74s website, it would seem that he is in the same business as I am. As techs/ PMs (I charge more for that ;) ) on events we have to be far more proactive in our work. Chasing clients down for info, predicting what they want. Dealing with turns and twirlies seems easy after trying to decipher what some CEO or their underlings actually want to happen on stage.

[LXbydesign]

Dealing with turns and twirlies seems easy after trying to decipher what some CEO or their underlings actually want to happen on stage.

 

Prehaps, but I would say not!! Some turns and definatly more twirlies can be far more demanding than CEO's!!

[David Lee]

Ahh but they tend to know what they want ;)