5 pin vs 3 pin DMX

[joeamonuk]

Hi there.

 

This is got me to near tears now,

I know it's going to be something so simple as well.

 

ok,

We have a set of Pulsar dimmer packs up, they take 5 pin inputs.

 

we have a masterpiece from the past running them, and it all works fine,

however we have a change over where it is needed to have a seperate lighting desk in

I got a obey 70.

it's output is 3 pin.

I couldn't get it working at all. now I'm at least getting a signal it's just flashing all over the place

 

so far I have found these bits of probably needed facts...

 

1. when I use the 3 pin from the master piece from the past all lights flash like mad, when I use 5 pin in same desk it's fine.

2. I get them same outcome from using the 3 pin out from my obey now, so I'm guessing it's a problem with the dimmer packs like a dip switch or something as annoying.

 

any fast help will be rewarded (if you can get to Leicester square in London, or Nottingham city centre)

 

if you need the model of the dimmer pack give me a quick shout, but I'm guessing it's a universal thing with pulsar dimmer packs

 

 

Cheers.

[Andrew C]

It is possible that one device complies less with the DMX standard even more than using 3pin, by swapping the polarity. When you say the

1. when I use the 3 pin from the master piece from the past all lights flash like mad,

is there a 3 pin on the Mantelpiece?

 

Final thought of the quick thoughts - have you terminated the line after the last dimmer? Sometimes you will get away with it for years, then one small change and you need it!

[jonathanhill]

The first thing that I would check is that the DMX lead you are using is good. I seem to recall that a lot of Pulsar products use their propriatory PMX interface as well as DMX. Could this be an issue?

[joeamonuk]

It is possible that one device complies less with the DMX standard even more than using 3pin, by swapping the polarity. When you say the

1. when I use the 3 pin from the master piece from the past all lights flash like mad,

is there a 3 pin on the Mantelpiece?

 

Final thought of the quick thoughts - have you terminated the line after the last dimmer? Sometimes you will get away with it for years, then one small change and you need it!

 

yes it's next to the 5 pin, I wasn't sure if it was working, but when I got the exact same outcome from the other desk, I assumed it was.

 

 

The first thing that I would check is that the DMX lead you are using is good. I seem to recall that a lot of Pulsar products use their propriatory PMX interface as well as DMX. Could this be an issue?

 

the DMX I'm using to try and get it to working is the 5 pin with a converter on, I have converted it back to a 5 pin and tested the master paster! and it worked all good, so pretty sure the cable is fine.

 

in regards to DMX / pmx would you know how I would go about changing that?

looking through this...

http://www.satsol.co.uk/impact/ProductInfo/J23492/J23492.pdf

 

it says it automatically recognises both PMX and DMX.

[Brian]

Are pins 2 and 3 the right way around on the 3 pin?

[boatman]

If you haven't done so already, go here and download the Masterpiece108 instruction manual.

 

Look at page 18 (page 25 in the pdf file) and you will see a diagram of the connectors. The three-pin XLR adjacent to the 5-pin XLR is a PMX output. This multiplex is specific to Pulsar and is not DMX. The details of the PMX multiplex used to be in the public domain, but I don't know if they still are. It may be that your Pulsar dimmers won't accept DMX. However, an email address for technical support at Pulsar can be found on this page.

 

I don't have access to a Masterpiece nor Pulsar dimmers, but it only took me a few minutes to find all the necessary details on the Pulsar website.

[joeamonuk]

Are pins 2 and 3 the right way around on the 3 pin?

the obey has a switch to swap if that was the case, but it doesn't seem to be

 

If you haven't done so already, go here and download the Masterpiece108 instruction manual.

 

Look at page 18 (page 25 in the pdf file) and you will see a diagram of the connectors. The three-pin XLR adjacent to the 5-pin XLR is a PMX output. This multiplex is specific to Pulsar and is not DMX. The details of the PMX multiplex used to be in the public domain, but I don't know if they still are. It may be that your Pulsar dimmers won't accept DMX. However, an email address for technical support at Pulsar can be found on this page.

 

I don't have access to a Masterpiece nor Pulsar dimmers, but it only took me a few minutes to find all the necessary details on the Pulsar website.

I see what you mean regarding the 3 pin, but I got exactly the same outcome using the 3 pin on the masterpiece as I did on the obey 70. so I don't think that is the problem.

in the dimmers there is a section that says pmx/DMX so I assume it accepts both like in the PDF I posted earlier.

I have seen the page and have already emailed them, I have a show tomorrow however, and doubt I will get a fast response.

 

Thank you everyone who has tried to help so far.

I feel we might get to the bottom of it in time at this rate.

[boatman]

The 6-channel Datapak III dimmer manual on the Pulsar website shows only three LEDs on the front panel. They are labelled RECEIVING DMX, RECEIVING PMX & DATA ERROR. The manual you linked to shows four front panel LEDs with slightly different labels but essentially the same information.

 

1. When the system is working correctly, which of these LEDs are lit up? That will tell you how the system is set up when it's working properly.

 

2. When it is not working which of the LEDs is lit up?

 

 

Also:

 

In the Masterpiece manual, the rear panel legend says the following:

 

"PMX - NO LINE TERMINATION REQUIRED BRANCHING OK. (SEE APPENDIX ONE)"

 

"DMX - TERMINATE LINE WITH 100-120R. BRANCHING NOT OK."

 

If the system is set up as a PMX network with branches and no termination it is very unlikely to work for DMX. A DMX network must be linear with a termination at the last fixture in the chain. You should be aware that the PMX data rate is only 9600Baud whereas the DMX data rate is 250kBaud (more than 25 times the speed).

 

Edit to add:

 

A further examination of page 42 of the Masterpiece manual reveals that the 3-pin connector is RS232 (+12V/-12V) whereas the 5-pin connector is RS423. The latter uses the same voltage levels as RS485, but is essentially an unbalanced signal. A single core cable would work for a PMX installation, however the manual does suggest the use of a two-core screened cable. You need to look at the cable used in the installation and see if it is either single core screened or twisted pair screened with one conductor connected to the screen. PMX will work with both, but in neither case will a DMX signal propagate correctly down the cable.

 

Hope that helps.

[joeamonuk]

The 6-channel Datapak III dimmer manual on the Pulsar website shows only three LEDs on the front panel. They are labelled RECEIVING DMX, RECEIVING PMX & DATA ERROR. The manual you linked to shows four front panel LEDs with slightly different labels but essentially the same information.

 

1. When the system is working correctly, which of these LEDs are lit up? That will tell you how the system is set up when it's working properly.

 

2. When it is not working which of the LEDs is lit up?

 

 

Also:

 

In the Masterpiece manual, the rear panel legend says the following:

 

"PMX - NO LINE TERMINATION REQUIRED BRANCHING OK. (SEE APPENDIX ONE)"

 

"DMX - TERMINATE LINE WITH 100-120R. BRANCHING NOT OK."

 

If the system is set up as a PMX network with branches and no termination it is very unlikely to work for DMX. A DMX network must be linear with a termination at the last fixture in the chain. You should be aware that the PMX data rate is only 9600Baud whereas the DMX data rate is 250kBaud (more than 25 times the speed).

 

I'll check the LEDs first thing if I can, we've just had a massive problem at the club and may not even be able to to (A), be open tomorrow. (B), be allowed to use electricity tomorrow.

 

we have 3 dimmer pack 16 X 10amp datapack IIIs in a chain. it was installed long before we started operating in there. it's hard wired (no DMX connectors on the dimmer packs), and the last one does not have a terminator. should I be buying one of these tomorrow? (5 pin terminator) or (5 pin to 3 pin converter, 3 pin terminator)

 

if anyone is in Nottingham and willing to come down tomorrow (Friday 21st october) and witness the madness and try to help. there's a Flaming Dragon lunch, or something of the like in it for them. and tickets to any shows. PM me and we'll swap numbers.

[boatman]

Joe,

 

I was editing my previous post when you replied. See the comment above about cables.

[joeamonuk]

Joe,

 

I was editing my previous post when you replied. See the comment above about cables.

 

so does this mean (if the cable is one of the above and seeing as the cable is soldered on one end) that in no way will DMX ever work?

I'm close to using all the swears!

 

I'm trying to get the masterpeice out the scene completely, but if I was to DMX the obey 70 to it as a master then take the 5 pin from there, might that sort it?

**sigh** this is silly. I only wanted to make it so we didn't have to move the desk all the time. (plus I hate the masterpeice buttons)

[Ross Bristo]

God knows why Pulsar have to be awkward and use a different pin configuration to most of the industry standard kit?

 

A few weeks back, I spent 2 hours wiring an 8 pin din connector for a Pulsar dimmer which had a funny old pin configuration.

 

Ross

[joeamonuk]

God knows why Pulsar have to be awkward and use a different pin configuration to most of the industry standard kit?

 

A few weeks back, I spent 2 hours wiring an 8 pin din connector for a Pulsar dimmer which had a funny old pin configuration.

 

Ross

is there not any kind of box that just converts things like this?

if not is there enough market for one?

[Dmills]

God knows why Pulsar have to be awkward and use a different pin configuration to most of the industry standard kit?

A few weeks back, I spent 2 hours wiring an 8 pin din connector for a Pulsar dimmer which had a funny old pin configuration.

 

There is method in this:

 

Basically Pulsar used to make a IIRC 3 channel dimmer and controller that used a 5 pin din for control, using an 8 pin with the funky pinout on the bigger desks allowed the 3 channel dimmers to just plug in (A look at a 5 and 8 pin din will confirm that the 5 pin plug will go into the 8 pin socket. Note also the strange pin numbering.

 

Pain in the arse these days, but at the time it did (sort of) make sense.

 

It shouldn't take two hours to stick an 8 pin din on a bit of cable surely?

 

Regards, Dan.

[Jamtastic3]

Make sure you aren't in soft patch mode on the desk. It's the button near top left of the desk.

Soft patch can affect the DMX channels with PMX channels going from 108/216 PMX channels to 512 DMX channels. Sometimes in the soft patch mode, depending on what's been patched where, lights seem uncontrollable or stay on.

 

As a rule of thumb to keep you on the straight and narrow, don't use the PMX sockets, just use the 5 pin DMX sockets with patching off.