Video Wall Project

[punderwood75]

Hi

 

I am currently working on a project to replace an existing video wall, and looking for some real world advice rather than what we are being told by suppliers :-)

 

We are currently have 5 year old - 4 x Sanyo XF-46e projectors, each are sited on floor mounted poles and deliver 4 separate edge butted images onto a white paint wall.

 

They are kept on 24 hours day!

 

The screen size for each image is approximately 4.06 x 3.04M 4:3 Ratio.

 

These projectors are end of life, and look really bad. They currently show (1 projector full screen website) 2 projectors x quads of video and the 4 is another website

 

They can be connected up to 10 sources with a mix of PC (websites), IPTV (BBC News, Sky News etc), and have a couple of old quad video splitters.

 

The plan is to replace this with either Barco / Christie and 4 x SD 4:3 or 3 x HD 16:9 (as the 16:9 will fill the same space).

 

I am happy on the projector front, however the bit I am unsure about is the video processing units. My background is broadcast and not projection.

 

We have looked at the Barco Encore and Christie VistaSpyder. On paper and bare in mind I have not had a play the Barco looks better ?

 

However, the Christie projectors are much better priced and the 4:3 models make life easy in terms of replacing. Longer lamp life etc.

 

On the video wall, I am looking to show up to 10 PIP with a nice background image of our brand. I would like a large ticker to go across the top of the screen filled with a RSS feed or eq news, stock quotes etc. and then have the various sources. If something happens on Sky news, I would like to have a touch screen on the office floor where if I press a button it takes that smaller window and blows it up full screen. Ideally with some sort of cool animation.

 

We have plenty of technical resources here, coders etc - and very happy to look at Mac / PC based solutions rather than then boxed solutions from Christie / Barco - are there other options ?

 

Any real world advice would be very helpful.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

[imageman]

Hi Paul,

 

Have a look at the DEXON video wall processers, they are designed to run 24/7 and tick all of your requirements off the shelf.

 

I think in the UK they are sold by the guys over at True Colours Distribution Ltd www.true-colours.net

 

Give them a shout I am sure they will be able to help

 

Imageman.

[sleepytom]

Christie Spyder would be OK - it can offer edge blended outputs to your projector, it can control network devices and itself be controlled via the network. The drawback of this kind of system (encore / spyder /dexon all suffer this) is that they need external media players / sources to be run into them - effectivly they are just doing the PIP composite and don't have the ability to playback any media themselves.

 

I'd strongly recommend considering hippotizer media servers as a more complete solution. Not only will they manage the edgeblending and projector management but they can also hold and playback a huge library of media, with timeline based control of what is displayed and where it appears on your screen. Live sources can also be integrated via HDSDI/DVI/Video inputs so live broadcast feeds are no problem. RSS feeds should also be able to be integrated (you should ask them about this though, it might be a job for the special products team) Hippotizer is considerably more affordable than the barco / christie systems and its a much better system for this kind of use where you want to schedule certain looks to appear at different times of day.

 

Encore and Spyder are both really designed to be run by an operator, where hippotizer is quite happy with being preprogrammed and then left to get on with it.

[AHYoung]

before jumping in, 2 important questions need answered.

 

1. 4 projectors, im assuming its a 4/1 array rather than a 2/2,

2. do you ever actually need content spanning the whole array. if answer to 1. is 2/2 id see the point, if its not, im not sure what you gain.

 

with regard to edge blending, why bother if you dont need content spanning the whole array, even if you do, youd have to have a seriuos reason for doing so as over the array you will lose around 20% of your light/ pixels/ area whatever. it will also inevitably look progressively worse over time as the projectors age.

 

also if its a pemanent signage installation id use a signage system to deliver the content, hippotizer/ catalyst/ watchout etc etc arnt designed for it and youd pretty soon realise the shortcommings great systems for a single operator to deliver content that allready been determined, but simpily not designed to be multi user or work with dynamic content. For this application you need proper integration with RSS, Web content, content from SQL databases etc otherwise some sucker is going to have to duplicate existing content. you also need multiuser support all with different privileges and access rights for each user. a one user system is useless unless your content is static and unchanging. You also need it to be totaly secure and run 24/7 for months or years without a reboot.

 

there are systems that do this, we use Onelan and its scaleable and secure. Others exist, but we use what we know and trust. With the Onelan its a box running linux that schedules remote and local content in all forms. The press a button, full screen you asked about is easy to implement as are video / tv inputs if you need them. you can also use it to turn the projectors off occasionally...

 

with regard to the projectors, good effort on the sanyos 5 years 24/7 - 40,000 hrs, im amazed they work at all... depending on your array, you may want to consider using a line of 3 16/9 or 16/10 units rather than 4 4/3 but again need the basics answered. If you want an easy fix, replace your sanyo Xf46s with Xf1000s - 12000 lumen 4/3 XGA, It will be easy to implenent as your existing possitions will be right and you can use the lenses you have. The Xf1000 has more durable panels than the 46s. they will also be consererably more cost effective than anything else. so much so that id consider running them in pairs turning on and off every 6 hours {autometed of course}, that way you not only have redundancy, but the things will actually last much longer.

 

Id split the project into 2 parts, content delivery and display, it actually is a very simple job, but you need to nail down what you / anyone else might like to see on that wall first, you can then work out how best to deliver that content and project it, for me the most important thing has to be the design of an easy to mannage system combined with low maintenance durable projectors.

 

In all seriousness, this is the kind of project we get involved in and would obviously be keen to quote as would many others

 

 

cheers

 

Alastair

[lobba]

Hi Paul,

 

There are pro's and cons of both Encore and Spyder. Having used both systems extensively, (although my Encore days are a couple of years ago) I have found the video quality of both systems comparable. The scalers of both very good and have the same frame delay.

 

One advantage of the X20 (16in 8out) Spyder will be that you get a 5U one box solution. This will give you 8 Data and 8 video inputs that you can scale and transition instantly anywhere over your projected area. We regularly use ours with Touchscreens etc for Presenters and trigger with both RS232 and network commands. The X20 also comes with a 16way Multiviewer that can run on any of your outputs showing all 16 inputs which is a neat touch, and a single Operator monitor to give you a preview of your entire screen area. The Spyder control software also has a fairly sophisticated scripting engine built in that can be triggered by your touchscreen command without further external programming. The scripting engine has Wait's/WaitX's, GoTo cues etc and can trigger external sources if needed. Vista are now owned by Christie and you may get a deal on your X20 or projectors if purchasing them together. That said the X20 is not a cheap solution! There is an 8 input version but be aware that this will only give you 4 data inputs and 4 video inputs.

 

The Barco encore will do the same transitions etc and can accept the remote commands. It lacks an internal scripting engine though so if you're not using the control desk then you need to program more externally to create complex transitions or. You also need an Encore frame per output meaning at least 12U for a 6 input 4 output system. I know there has been some positive changes in how to get more inputs into the system and I will leave that question to techs better able to answer that than I. I think you also need an extra frame (another 3U) to create a single operator monitor (all your outputs composited onto one screen), useful for programming if you can't see the main screen. Otherwise you will need a PGM and PRV monitor for each frame - 4 outputs would mean 8 monitors.

 

Both Spyder and Encore won't do any DVE effects, PIP spins etc, they are both very much 2D in terms of their transitions, wipes, moves mixes etc. The Spyders do a nice Morph when changing size/aspect ratio/position but otherwise they are identical.

 

I hope that helps. Please forgive me any outdated Barco information (I welcome corrections). In the interests of openness I should tell you that we sold our Encore's in favour of more Spyders a few years ago but that doesn't make them any less relevant for you and we occasionally come across projects that they are perfect for.

 

It's worth saying that both of these options are expensive but you get dedicated processing hardware that are specifically designed for their purpose.

 

In response to SleepyTom I would be careful of the flexibility of the Hippo's. They are nice bits of kit but have major limitations in accepting multiple external sources. That said, being built on standard PC architecture, they would be much cheaper, and if you can get them to manage all of your content then they might be worth a look.

 

Let us know how you get on and what you decide.

 

Lobba

[Mr_P]

Hi Paul

 

You could quite easily do all of this with a Catalyst system configured with multiple head output.

 

Catalyst can store the content and manipulate the outputs as you describe. So it might be a better 'all in one' option than spyder or encore - as it also stores content. The other systems might require an external programming device to operate the system in the way in which you have described. Catalyst could do this with either a custom web-page / touchscreen / button interface.

 

There would have to be some careful programming to make the GUI components animate as you require (but thats the same with any system...)

 

Essentially - you could do everything you have described 'in one box' for less than £10k (aprox)

 

Do contact me if you want to have a look at a basic setup of your scenario to see if it would be suitable

 

Regards

 

Simon

[sleepytom]

There are workarounds for hippos input limitations. A 4 projector install would be done on 2 dual output machines, this would double the number of inputs you had access to immediately, and by using a controllable matrix upstream of the hippos you can put anything to anywhere so to speak (as people do with spyders generally). You could also use the Shipman technique which takes a quad multiviewer with HDSDI out into the HD input on the hippo, this gives you a single input with 4 sources which can of course then be chopped out and positioned individually.

 

Has the Spyder X20 stability got any better? I had the misfortune of programming one of the first units they sold and it was full of bugs and teething troubles, many of its features (including some that we had specifically selected the X20 for) turned out to be "future functionality" (yep that is actually what Christie support said!!) and it had real trouble coping in a multiformat environment as switching between 50 and 60 hz sources seemed to make it fall over frequently.

 

Digital signage solutions are Ok if you want it to look like digital signage. If you want any kind of control over windows size and position, with motion transitions and effects that actually look nice then a media server solution will be far more powerful. You could always do both an have a digital signage server as an input into a media server - this would give you all the webmin / multiuser config that you could want AND the vastly improved motion and effects that a media server solution would offer. All of it can be run from AMX touch panels if you so desire

[punderwood75]

Thank you all for a great response. Digesting and will come back with comments shortly.

[Pete McCrea]

Sorry for not having put my 2p in the pot yet - Just haven't had a chance to post for a few days.

 

Personally I read this as a corporate office installation, where possibly the IT manager has been tasked with replacing a now daggy looking display. I see that the key functionality is being able to input the required sources, then recall these via a series of presets through a Crestron/AMX type system, with possibly the ability to remote monitor the system and make display preset changes if required. Reliability and TCO are also key features in the current economic climate. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these.

 

You mention the ability to use PC/Mac based options as well as hardware options. Personally I'd look to stick with a hardware unit to drive this display. It sounds like a fairly major part of the office operation, look and feel, and I would feel happier with a unit with the relevant redundant PSU's and specific processing for the graphics work. Then there are also the issues such as RS232 for linking to Crestron AMX type hardware that isn't impossible with a PC, but is designed into the video wall processors.

 

I'd also steer away from the Media Server type units, as I see this as more of a System Integration situation than a live event. I'm not saying they won't do the job (I've worked with Mr_P aka Simon Pugsley many times, and trust his experience and judgement highly), but I feel that again the dedicated hardware might be a more reliable easier to maintain and operate solution for an IT manager type person that a CAT or Hypo system.

 

If I were specifying the system out I'd be looking at something from Extron such as the possibly the [http://www.extron.co.uk/product/product.aspx?id=mgp464w&subtype=420&s=3]WindoWall System[/url] or their newer Quantum Elite System. These are designed to give the backgrounds, PIPs etc and will accept the sources you mention, as well as having the scalability that means you could add new sources and not have to reconfigure things too much. They are designed to do what your after, so will integrate into IP network / RS232 controlled solutions with no fuss, and let you get on with watching the content rather than faffing with configuration.

 

Another option that has just occurred, could be using the projectors onboard windowing options. Barco kit give you the ability to PIP an input over another input, and I'm 90% certain the Christie stuff will do so too. With a bit of matrix work to get the right signals to the right Inputs on the projectors you might just be able to get rid of a video wall processor, and recall the PIPS and background stuff via presets from some form of controller.

 

As regards the projectors - we have Barco in Hire Stock and are a Christie Digital Partner (by Virtue of being the first rental company in the UK to take on the MicroTiles and having provided their projectors to installs etc), so can provide a fairly unbiased opinion. Both brands produce good quality equipment, with some preferring one over the other. One possible plus point for Christie is their UK based repairs in Wokingham, so if you did have an issue with a unit, it doesn't have to go back to belgium to be looked at.

 

One other thought is the whole lamp life factor - are you planning on Zenon or Mercury lamp units? Zenon typically have a 1000 hour life then need to be replaced, so you'd be looking at possibly re-lamping the units nearly once a month, and with the Zenons be £1000+, you could have a high relamp cost. Some of the Mercury units can be run for longer and the lamps are cheaper, so TCO might be lower, though needs to be considered against the colour rendering etc.

 

MicroTiles could also be an option - considered over TCO, the initial investment might be more cost effective, as they are a 7 year 24/7/365 operation before half light output, so effectively can be run for 7 years with no need to touch the display device, as well as fantastic resolution and colour reproduction. They are also fully serviceable from the front of the unit, so can be installed into walls or other openings to give a flush display surface.

 

Just thought I'd through that in there for you to chew over! Hope it helps.

Pete.

[Mr_P]

I'd also steer away from the Media Server type units, as I see this as more of a System Integration situation than a live event. I'm not saying they won't do the job (I've worked with Mr_P aka Simon Pugsley many times, and trust his experience and judgement highly), but I feel that again the dedicated hardware might be a more reliable easier to maintain and operate solution for an IT manager type person that a CAT or Hypo system.

 

Pete

 

You make some valid comments -

However, I would lke to point out that media servers are used un a huge number of permanent installations around the world. The most recent I was involved in supplying was for the world cup:

http://www.etnow.com/news/2010/6/snp-produ...orld-cup-studio

The servers have now been installed in Miami running the same studio for the next few years...

 

Catalyst is a flexible installation solution, as well as a live event product, and is ultimately more flexible that some 'hardware box' due to its nature.

 

You could still stick a crestron control panel on the front end via RS232 is you want a limited control surface....

 

Bottom line - doesnt matter what system you go for - so long as its going to do the job effectively for the money and you get good support...