Crazy rates of pay devaluing our industry?

[AndyJones]

A post elsewhere on this forum:

We pay £25 per show, with £50 for the rehearsal week and £50 bonus at the end of the tour, providing that the contract has been fulfilled and the equipment in good order. You will tech at least 15 shows throughout the tour, though exact numbers will be confirmed closer to rehearsals.

A bit of a rant I'm afraid...

 

Is it just me or is this just taking things too far! £25 for a show-call is horrendous! Are job offers like this damaging our industry? Am I going to out of work next year when every one has had to drop there rates to £25 a day or £50 a week!?

 

Thoughts people?

 

Andy Jones

 

(I thought there might be a similar topic, But I couldn't find it!)

[Pete McCrea]

Well if it's someone on the NMW that makes a 4.2 Hour call.....

[TomG]

Well if it's someone on the NMW that makes a 4.2 Hour call.....

 

5.93 * 4.2 = £24.91 assuming they are over 21.

[mrcog]

And someone paying the NMW for a skilled job is taking the mick... Also the fact that they are paying £50 for a WEEK's work of rehearsals, you would definatly be getting less than the NMW!

[Pete McCrea]

Personally I think it's scandalous. It's going to be a good days work - assuming meet at 08:30, travel to site and rig, then show during lunch/early afternoon, then de rig and travel home.

 

Assuming a run of shows, 15 as they state, and a fairly basic system say two wind up stands and speakers on sticks with assistance from the actors to rig it, then I'd be looking at paying a tech at-least 5 to 6 times the rate they are advertising...

[TomG]

The last event I worked on was 23 hours work at an approx base of £250, this is extremely low by industry standards, and is mainly because I'm just starting out, I do not have the experience you guys have, and also that the event was in a school, with mediocre facilities.

 

For an unskilled job like manning a supermarket till (Waitrose) I get £6.49 an hour, which is good considering how little brain power it takes and how quite it can get, eg on some days your just being paid to sit there and chat with your mates.

 

EDIT: Spelling

[J Pearce]

I recently saw an ad for a job at a well known old theatre, basic technician building, running and striking shows. Wage of 14000 with no overtime payable. They were asking for several years previous experience.

 

Is knowledge and experience really worth that little?

[ramdram]

Open post to the Kate woman...you should be ashamed to offer such low rates of pay. What do YOU get paid? Doubtless your regular bloke is away on a "proper" job...earning rather more than the niggardly amount you are "happy" to pay. It is unlikely you can justify this nonsense so it really is pointless to try...I cannot conceive you will gain much support on this forum.

 

Suggest you should consider another career....clearly your skill at negotiating a decent wage for your co-workers is non existent. And you claim to be a member of Equity?

[Gareth A]

We pay £25 per show, with £50 for the rehearsal week and £50 bonus at the end of the tour, providing that the contract has been fulfilled and the equipment in good order. You will tech at least 15 shows throughout the tour, though exact numbers will be confirmed closer to rehearsals.

 

Also how can you say that they will pay the bonus if the equipment is in good order. What happens if its not in good order or someone else drops it . do you loose that bonus . . though £50 is just a joke anyway.!

[paulears]

Personally - there's a big difference, I think, between a proper professional job, and the kind of project that is more akin to an amateur group doing it for fun and experience. I get jittery when, as I found out in my youth, you are doing the technical stuff for peanuts, and then you find out the actors are getting better pay. I know the jobs are different, but if the job is big enough to demand a dedicated technical person, then it's big enough to split fairly. Six people doing a show. Forget for a moment that they're acting - let's talk about musicians. They are always needing deps - it doesn't matter if it's in the pit at a amateur show or at a holiday centre playing music for sequence dancing - finding somebody to cover is a common requirement. A couple of 45 minute sets at the holiday centre might be £50 in the pocket, below the MU rate, but in the regions not too uncommon. Half of this seems too extreme. If the job was advertised as "ideal for students needing work experience, I've got less of a problem - and for people starting out, they do often work for free, so £25 a show is something.

 

I not there is no mention of 'status'. If the person is self-employed (as in properly self-employed) then they probably won't be interested - wiping out panto season for a few badly paid gigs may not be that attractive, but if they are not self-employed, then do the company take PAYE and pay employers NI?

 

If this company is an amateur company, charging cheap prices to the schools to get work, and then pays a pittance to the participants - but as a share of the profit - I can understand. After all, take what the schools can afford, take off expenses and then distribute fairly doesn't mean good money - but for the low pay to be fair, it needs explaining.

 

Touting it as a proper job, especially with the 'good condition' clause is what seems to be upsetting us.

 

Whatever we think, they'll find somebody!

[dynamo_ozz]

It's time that things need to be regulated to weed out productions that 'can't afford' to pay crew proper wages. I have got some extreme ideas like licensing each production by setting up a licensing body who will be presented the proposal of the production company that wants to stage x/y/z, mainly showing the budgeting, the previous year's ticket sales (if it's a company that's been around a while), and h&s issues and how these issues are being or will be dealt with. Basically the production company will have to convince the licensing body that they will abide by the regs, and MNW. If they are successful in their application, a license to put a production on stage will be granted (and a fee will be charged), and every theatre or venue receiving this company will ask to see this license before letting the company in. Any issues with this company (late paying the crew, or the venue, or h&s issues) will be referred to the licensing body and these companies will be red flagged, which also will be published so we can see who the offenders are and stay away from them.

 

It's may be too controversial for your taste, and of course, there will be the questions of but how about the amateurs, how about student techs and less experienced's... It all boils down to the fact that we can't keep on going like this... We need to be able to feed ourselves.

 

I am now scared that everyone will try to bite my head off now after this post. Oh well, Hope we all still believe in democracy and right of free speech.

[the kid]

I recently saw an ad for a job at a well known old theatre, basic technician building, running and striking shows. Wage of 14000 with no overtime payable. They were asking for several years previous experience.

 

Is knowledge and experience really worth that little?

 

 

Now I was chatting to someone about a similar job, I think it was £16k. However it neglected FULL union rates. Working it out, it ended up being about 25-30k, and I have seen quite a few of those on a un-named website lately.

[ramdram]

Equity understands these pressures, but as a union our

belief is that there are major potential pitfalls for members

in taking such work. While many low/no pay production are

bona fide, there is always the danger that members will be

exploited by unscrupulous employers who make a profit from

the good will of others in the profession. There is also the threat

that such low/no pay work will devalue the work of others in

the profession.

 

 

For those that don't recognise the above extract it is from an Equity paper dealing with your rights at work. (Hope it is acceptable to quote it here, Equity have been acknowledged.)

 

I have difficulty with a member of Equity (from the advertiser's profile), advertising for positions which seem to be an exemplar of the last sentence.

 

Nobody really believes that the hours will be as advertised. As for the carrot of a £50 bonus, it relies on the caveat the kit is not "broken"...who knows what happens to said kit when "you" are not around?

 

And for any youngsters reading this who dream of that wonderful job in "Theatreland" read the above extract again and again 'til it sinks in. Just bear in mind that this is the reality.

 

Suggest you consider seriously joining a Union and supporting your fellow workers...and not help to exploit them.

[Stewart Newlands]

See: http://www.bectu.org.uk/news/548

 

"Expenses-only engagements are illegal, say Employment Tribunals

 

Nicola Vetta and Martin Spence express their delight at the tribunal win Nicola Vetta and Martin Spence outside the Reading Employment Tribunals

 

25 November 2009

 

The Employment Tribunals, sitting in Reading, have ruled that workers engaged on an expenses-only basis are entitled to payment at least in line with the national minimum wage, in addition to payment for the holiday they accrue.

 

The decision arises from a case brought by Nicola Vetta, a former art department assistant, against London Dreams Motion Pictures Ltd.

 

BECTU supported the case and has welcomed the judgement as an important milestone in efforts to rid the industry of exploitative employers who deny new entrants their lawful right to be paid for the work they do.

 

The decision emphasises that creative industry employers are not excluded from obligations under the national minimum wage regulations. "

[dynamo_ozz]

I seriously believe that we need a proper union for us (BECTU is often too busy with fighting for BBC workers) that is going to understand us and fight for us. We need to get ourselves together too. Too long that we are putting up with crap.