Blank firing guns!

[flip13]

Hello Everyone!

 

Im working on a show set in 1900 with a make shift street gang who manged to get hold of some guns, (the revolver style guns.) they do fire them all at once in the play when they are having a 'training sesh' so they need to be able to fire blanks. dose any one know where I can hire blanks and blank Guns from (in the surrey area)? and is there any laws about the amount of guns we can use or about the level of noise they make?

any other Info would be great!

 

much love

 

flip

[Simon Lewis]

Flip,

 

This is quite an involved and problematic subject. If you look at this thread you will see that blank firers can cause serious injury.

Then there is the issue of replica guns, transport of guns, starting pistols which have been deemed illegal by the Police, and the potential need for an armourer in stage productions.

 

There are many different past discussions on this subject, so it would probably be best to do a search and see if your query is answered.

 

Simon

[Ynot]

Indeed.

This is one of those areas that MUST have a responsible, experienced armourer (who might also be the SM) in charge and in FULL control of the weapons involved. Access and use of the replicas MUST be tightly controlled at all times.

 

And whilst I'm not sure (would have to check) this could also be one of those areas where the control MUST be exercised by an adult (ie over 18).

[Andrew C]

There was a report in yesterday's Torygraph of an actor being injured by a blank firer. So yes, all due precautions, and then some!

 

Link

[Ynot]

There was a report in yesterday's Torygraph of an actor being injured by a blank firer. So yes, all due precautions, and then some!

<coughs politely>

Already linked above to my post yesterday about that very thing..

<clears throat quietly>

[JazzAV]

Seeing the amount of trouble having 'Live' weapons on stage can be, I wonder why you need them, As lovely it as would be to have real firing guns, I'm sure you can ask your audience to suspend a little more disbelief.

[Ynot]

Seeing the amount of trouble having 'Live' weapons on stage can be, I wonder why you need them, As lovely it as would be to have real firing guns, I'm sure you can ask your audience to suspend a little more disbelief.

I'd agree that in SOME situations a 'live' report from a firearm isn't always necessary, but there are certainly some pieces that use of a mock-up non-firing weapon would just look silly.

 

But as I've already mooted, when the occasion calls for the 'real thing' there are a LOT of safety rules to be observed by ALL.

[cho_drummer]

My Dad was temporarily blinded by a blank firing gun when he was younger. Really dangerous things if you get too close. If I were you I'd use sound FX triggered by a stage hand or two using midi, or even give the job to the band. Hook up a midi keyboard and trigger the SFX when a gun is fired. Get someone with quick reactions and it'll be easy, or, get some sort of signal going between the actor and the stage hand/band member. It should work fine.

[rasskin]

well, here's a fun one for you:

 

We are performing Animal Farm in December.

 

the script calls for farmer Jones to fire his shotgun (on more than one occasion), who is being played by a minor (it's a school production).

 

I've contacted the local firearms unit for their advice which, to be frank, was pretty useless.(I was informed that I would need a certificate in order to even hire the weapon)

 

From further research I understand if the holder of a certificate brings his/her own weapon and supervizes throughout and if the weapon is secured in an appropiate facility this would be within the confines of the law?

 

We also have a C.C.F. unit on site so storage is no issue and several of the parents are landholders (i.e. likely to have guns and license). The school is private and therefore permission to fire on the premesis is ok.

 

I myself have LOTS of experience in the past with use of blank fire or deactivated weapons and am quite happy on this front. the complication is that for a shotgun to fire blanks it would still need to be a fully active weapon.

 

If the local firearms unit can't help advise me can any of you?

[Ynot]

A real shotgun on stage in the hands of a minor......?

 

Sorry, but I'll be the first to shout "HELL NO!!!"

 

I don't often react so strongly, but heck, that's a recipe for disaster!

 

School productions (private or no) in my book are pretty much top of the list for using a mock weapen with a sound effect.

[andy_s]

I've yet to hear a recorded gunshot which has the impact of a blank fired on stage. However, it's certainly a valid approach to reducing the risk attached to firing a weapon on stage. the blank-firing weapons that I've used in past productions (though not for a long time) had vents on the top of the breech, so exhaust gases and debris was vented upwards (assuming the handgun was being held correctly and not gangsta style) rather than forwards from the barrel, so was possibly safer, though it must be said that the safety of this still relies on correct procedures being observed, so it's not foolproof.

 

As I understand it, whether a weapon is capable of firing blanks is irrelevant according the the law: it refers to replica weapons which could be mistaken for the real thing (added for clarification) so even when a sound effect is used, the user still needs to operate in a way that represents a defence against the effects of the Violent Crimes Reduction Act 2007, as defined in the act, unless the replica is replaced by something that clearly cannot possibly be mistaken for a lethal weapon. A banana, for instance? (apologies for slight flippancy)

 

 

It could of course be argued that it is never necessary to use a realistic replica weapon. Or that conversely, some productions require absolute verisimilitude for their impact, in which case the Act allows a defence.

 

edited to clarify...

 

and again for spelling!

[JimWebber]

I've yet to hear a recorded gunshot which has the impact of a blank fired on stage. However, it's certainly a valid approach to reducing the risk attached to firing a weapon on stage. the blank-firing weapons that I've used in past productions (though not for a long time) had vents on the top of the breech, so exhaust gases and debris was vented upwards (assuming the handgun was being held correctly and not gangsta style) rather than forwards from the barrel, so was possibly safer, though it must be said that the safety of this still relies on correct procedures being observed, so it's not foolproof.

(Snip)

I seem to remember many years back, a production of Annie Get Your Gun. Because most weapons exhausted the gasses out of the top of the breech, When Ms Oakley and Mr. Hiscock fired their guns over their shoulders, we had to source guns specifically designed for AGYG...

 

This was back in 1995, when we were able to stand outside the scenery dock, letting off excess cartridges into the night air, without an armed response unit turning up...

 

JW

[Wingwalker]

To answer the op's original post...

 

Whilst I agree with everything that everyone on here has said, safety comes first - end of - there used to be a company a few years ago called Bapty and Co who were the perfect people to both advise and hire out replica weaponry for use within the industry. If anyone's going to know the who what where and how its these guys. After doing a quick Google search it looks as though they may be having a renovation to their website but a holding page gives out their phone number for people to call.

 

Hope that helps,

 

David.

[sleah]

IMHO a 'real' weapon should be ruled out completly for these reasons:

 

This has similarities to Brandon Lee's ultimately fatal accident during the filming of 'The Crow'.

 

Although in that that case it was an actual bullet from an earlier mistake by a rushed second unit, the weapon was not checked prior it's next use.

Guess it stems from the common misconception that blank round = totally safe.

 

Can anyone here say that they would happily stand at the business end of a shot gun that's firing a blank?

 

I sure wouldn't ;)

[J Pearce]

One approach that was used in a production of West Side Story I was involved with was to have a dummy gun onstage and a very well timed blank firer in a controlled space offstage.

 

Reduces the risk as a trained armourer can fire in his own space with others well out of the way.