3 days to come up with a price

[mvnorwood]

Hi all,

 

New here. Have spent the last couple of hours trawling this forum and have learnt a great deal but feel a direct post would help me more.

 

A long time ago I used to be a performing arts teacher but my last school had its own theatre technician and my school prior to that had some very keen 6th formers I would use. So my own small amount of technical knowledge is at least 20 years old!

 

We are currently building a new school (technically a pupil referral unit). It is already over half built so we can't change the plans etc. Some time ago I submitted a list of considerations for a 'studio' space and recommended getting a professional company in to do a budget, mid and top end quote. My list went something like this:

 

"lighting grid

 

curtain trunks

 

curtains

 

wiring for lighting

 

lighting control systems - ideally around 25-30 dimmers

 

ideally a memory control desk failing that a manual desk

 

a variety of luminaires

 

luminaire accessories (brackets, safety chains, gel frames, barn doors, gels etc.)

 

wiring for sound system - a number of input sockets around the space for mics etc and speaker system wiring

 

simple PA system and simple sound mixing facility

 

CD player plugged into PA/mixing desk

 

Whiteboard or similar projection system but creating a much larger image than in a standard classroom with very short throw projection to use for backdrops etc

 

PC with DVD drive wired to PA and projection

 

Rostra system

 

Plenty of sockets for keyboards, guitar amps etc.

 

Lectern?

 

Maybe a couple of extra PC or Macs for running Garageband/Logic etc for music work.

 

The whole space should be painted Matt Black (failing this another dark colour but must be Matt) and have exit signs which can be illuminated.

 

Ideally the 'house lights' (the day to day lights) should be able to be operated (ie switched off) from wherever the lighting desk is.

 

Proper (complete) black out blinds are essential"

 

I never heard anything back and assumed it wasn't going to happen. Today my head told me that he has found out about some funding he can put a bid in for, and has given me THREE DAYS (!) to come up with an itemised list of estimates. I tried to explain that this was a professional job and we needed to get an outside firm to help but he said we don't have the time. We just need "rough" figures and a "rough" idea of the "sort of thing" we will need to buy.

 

Here's the good bit. I have been told to aim the spec pretty high but not ridiculous. The old 'go for lots and get a bit less' approach.

 

The studio space is 6m wide by 11m long. In the bottom half of the 6m long west wall are double doors into a 'storage space' which is 2.4m x 2.4m

 

Here are a list of possible uses for the space:

 

 

"Music lessons/workshops/performances

 

Drama lessons/workshops/performances

 

Dance lessons/workshops/performances

 

Presentation evenings

 

Exhibition space

 

Photography - studio work

 

Animation - studio work

 

Meetings

 

Film/video work

 

Green screen work

 

Space for Theatre in Education companies

 

Community group space for hire (could be anything from rehearsal space, small performance space through to local writing group meetings, etc.)

 

Exam room

 

Small sports space eg: for yoga, badminton etc."

 

So I have (with great difficulty) started trying to use the stage electrics website to come up with an itemised costed list. This is how far I have got:

 

Staging/Rostra

 

Unit description/name/size

 

Cost/unit

 

No. Units

 

Total

 

Metrodeck Ultra 2mx1m

 

375

2

750

Metrodeck Ultra 1mx1m

 

295

6

1770

steel leg 250mm

 

2.75

32

88

steel leg 500mm

 

4.5

20

90

Fibre-bonded carpet finish

 

45

8

360

Lighting

 

Unit description/name/size

 

Cost/unit

 

No. Units

 

Total

 

Stage Electrics 15A Cord Patch with 36 x 2m Leads + 15A Plugs

 

500

1

500

Stage Electrics IWB+End Term Box & 15A Stage Sockets 4m 6way

 

240

6

1440

Suspension hardware per bar

 

50

6

300

Silver Numbers Round Self Adhesive - 1 to 36

 

7

2

14

Zero 88 00-307-11-32 Betapack 3 Dimmer 6ch + 15A Sockets + 32A Plug

 

700

4

2800

Zero 88 00-108-11 Jester 12/24 Lighting Control Desk + 13A Plug

 

850

1

850

Lee Colour Magic Starter Pack - 12 x Original Colours

 

15

8

120

Lee Colour Magic Starter Pack - 12 x Colour Tints

 

15

8

120

Now I have hit a wall. I am looking at luminaires and have no idea what to buy for a space that size. Do they come with capsules (that is what lamps are called?) What about gel carriers etc? I am also clueless as to a realistic figure for labour and additional cabling (32A supply etc) would 10 grand cover labour and cabling? What about curtains and trunking? Mirrors and bars for dance?

 

I don't expect to be spoon fed but any help at all would be really, really appreciated. The clock is ticking and I am really floundering.

Thank you.

Mark Norwood

 

 

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Mmmm my list so far has lost its formatting. Can I attach an excel worksheet?

 

I'

[matt_beal]

Hi Mark,

 

You really need some professional help with this... as you're finding this isn't something that can be chucked easily together. Have you tried calling anyone to see if they can help you out?

 

Where abouts are you? Perhaps a kind BR member might be nearby and willing to help or can recommend a local install company to give you a guestimate...?

 

Matt

[Simon Lewis]

Mark,

 

The larger companies (AC Entertainment Technology, Stage Electrics etc.) are used to this kind of mad timescale from education, and will also have a host of past school projects that they can draw upon to give generic ideas and prices. They may be able to respond with what yo uneed in three days!

 

AC's project division can be found here

 

Regards,

 

Simon

[gareth]

Simon's right - you need to put this in the hands of one of the big suppliers who can draw on their industry knowledge and experience of past projects to put together a ballpark figure for the project. I suspect it can only really be a ballpark at this stage, because a proper quote would entail the supplier coming to do a site survey and looking at things like how they're going to fix the grid and drape tracks to the ceiling, how long the cable runs are, what containment is required, the size and location of the existing power supply, etc.

 

This is the sort of situation where it's really useful if people have done what you haven't - i.e. filled in the 'location' field in your profile. If we know where you are, we can point you towards one of the big suppliers who are local to you or have a branch in your area. Give us a clue! ;)

[timtheenchanteruk]

not sure where you are, but if you are somewhere around yorkshire, Zig Zag Lighting in Leeds have done most of the new builds/re-kits round us recently (and are doing ours too)

[boatman]

From his profile, Mark appears to be in Aylesbury. In that case AC is very close by in High Wycombe.

[kerry davies]

There are a large number of companies specialising in school/village hall theatre services around the UK who would almost certainly have an outline package price available from previous jobs.

Try Googling "School Theatre Services".

[Bobbsy]

Trying to do this yourself is a bad idea. The next stage in that process is a post along the lines of "Help. I only have £10,000 to fit out a studio theatre and that's not enough...what can I do that's cheap".

 

I'll second the suggestion of AC as good people to work with who have the knowledge to help you.

 

I also have another suggestion since my son does a similar job for a school in your area (and they did a major installation a couple of years ago)...but I'll send THAT part by PM!

 

Bob

[J Pearce]

Mark if you are in Aylesbury I can recommend AC, and also feel free to visit us at the Floyd if you want to look round similar spaces for inspiration.

[mvnorwood]

Hi all, thanks for the replies. You have all said basically the same as I tried telling the Head.

 

Sorry for the lack of location info. I am indeed in Aylesbury. I'm camping with the Scouts this weekend so won't be able to post again till Monday (posting this using Android which isn't ideal).

 

I had already suggested AC as a local firm to the head so will try them and the local schools suggested on Monday.

 

Thank you all for your input so far.

Mark Norwood

Blueprint Short Stay School.

[the kid]

AC or SE for sure I would maybe add maybe 5% on top for "just in case". Don't forget that VAT is changing soon, they need to know now but is that under the impression they are going to buy now?

 

We were got last time when it went from 15 to 17.5 not by much but a £1k spend makes enough of a jump let alone a £15K spend.

[heinz57]

If I can I would like to suggest another company worth contacting,

 

Try contacting the Custom Group. They would beable to supply you with everything you need, they don't use any sub-contractors and will complete the works to a proffessional standard.

 

http://www.custom-group.com/

[mvnorwood]

Thank you all for the suggesting especially those who PMed.

 

I have contacted one of the local schools suggested to look at their facilities and pick the brains of their tech.

 

I do have a further query linked to this one but slightly different so have created it as a new topic titled: Courses with technical 'options'

 

Thanks

Mark