Newbie needs some help: Lighting a small band

[flukather]

Hi!

 

My name is Nick, and this is my first post here :)

 

I'm new to lights and controlling them, and I would very much like some help. Me and my girlfriend play in a duo with backgrounds that I pre-record in my studio, and I thought it was time for some lights in our live gigs.

 

First, will this do for a small duo (in terms of the light arrangement, just placing one of each stand at either side of the stage, just behind the FOH system):

 

http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_mobile...ainer_set_3.htm

 

Or, will I need anything else? I know some put moving heads and maybe a laser over the backdrop behind the band, but it feels abit like overkill for a duo. Will the Par64 handle both color and white light ok?

 

 

Second, I need a DMX controller. I need something that's rackmountable (3 spaces or less), can be controlled by midi (I'm going to control it just via midi live), and have a decent amount of scenes and chases. Can someboy point me in the right direction?

 

 

Last of all, just let me be sure this is right: A scene is a state of all the lights, and a chase is a sequence of scenes right? :D Is there anything more I should know about controlling a simple light rig, and some place where I can read up? If I start playing a chase, will it loop until I tell it to stop? Is there a DMX controller that can accept messages on 17-32?

 

Thanks in advance

 

/ Nick

[Brian]

First, will this do for a small duo...

I can't find a manual for the controller. Not sure how it handles MIDI.

 

Will the Par64 handle both color and white light ok?

No. Whilst you can make white-ish light with RGB LED cans it's not a very flattering light.

 

I need something that's rackmountable (3 spaces or less), can be controlled by midi

Does it need to have the ability to store scenes and chases? NJD make a MIDI to DMX converter (find them on eBay), you could program the whole lot as a MIDI track. The converter does nothing more than take Note-On and Note Off and convert them to DMX.

 

...A scene is a state of all the lights, and a chase is a sequence of scenes right? :) ...

Ish. A chase could be a sequence of single channels but you're close enough.

 

...If I start playing a chase, will it loop until I tell it to stop?

Depends on the controller. Some have the ability to set a chase to a single run or to loop.

[KidRay]

A couple of quick points:

 

The controller in that package nearly does what you want but doesn't have midi control (it has a midi input socket but not the necessary software).

Other companies do a version of the same controller that will accept MIDI, (e.g. Chauvet)

 

The parcans are not bad, you won't get perfect white, but perfectly acceptable for band use. The issue you might come across is that the beam angle is quite narrow on LED parcans; you might struggle with coverage in a small venue where you can't get the lights very far away from the performing area.

[flukather]

Thanks for the help guys! :)

 

I've read as much as I can about the controllers, and I think have found a bunch that will do what I need (leaning towards the Showtec Scanmaster MKII). I've learned that 6 chases are pretty standard for the type of DMX controllers I'm looking out. Btw, is blackout that all the lights turn off? Is there a simular command for bringing the PAR lights up fully, like for when a song ends?

 

About the the actual lights, will a PAR56 LED work for white? I know there is all white PAR56s with LEDs, is that the way to go? Would it be nough to replace one PAR56 one each side with an all white PAR 56 LED, or should it 2 or each?

 

Thanks!

[KidRay]

I've learned that 6 chases are pretty standard for the type of DMX controllers I'm looking out.

 

Yes but, you will also have a number of banks of scenes that you can run like a chase too. On the Stairville/Chauvet controllers mentioned above there are 30 banks of 8 scenes, so you can have 30 x 8-scene chases plus the 6 chases that can have a large (can't remember how many) number of individual scenes.

[adam2]

All common LED PARs give white light, but this is achieved by mixing red, green, and blue light.

As a result it tends to be a rather poor white and is liable to differ from one unit to another.

Probably fine for a band though, as the intention is presumably to give an attractive or eye catching look, rather than accurate colour rendering.

[KidRay]

What are you using for playback of the backing track? If you're using a PC or Mac with certain audio software (Logic, Ableton, Garage Band, etc.) then Enttec's DMXIS lets you program and run the light show with the playback and comes with a DMX dongle so no conversion via midi is required.

[flukather]

What are you using for playback of the backing track? If you're using a PC or Mac with certain audio software (Logic, Ableton, Garage Band, etc.) then Enttec's DMXIS lets you program and run the light show with the playback and comes with a DMX dongle so no conversion via midi is required.

 

I'm using Winamp to trigger my Roland Fantom XR module, and will use the MIDI through to feed the DMX controller. I find the whole "playlist" thingy much more convenient that opening a projectin Cubase, or use multiple software.

 

About the white light, in what way is it poor? Wierd color, lack of punch?

[Brian]

About the white light, in what way is it poor? Wierd color, lack of punch?

The former.

 

It's very difficult to make a good white from just R, G and B LEDs. The actual colours used aren't really close enough to those needed to make white. It tends to look either too blue or too red; getting it spot on is nigh-on impossible. There are now LED units on the market that add in Amber LEDs to counter this problem.

[flukather]

About the white light, in what way is it poor? Wierd color, lack of punch?

The former.

 

It's very difficult to make a good white from just R, G and B LEDs. The actual colours used aren't really close enough to those needed to make white. It tends to look either too blue or too red; getting it spot on is nigh-on impossible. There are now LED units on the market that add in Amber LEDs to counter this problem.

 

 

That's cool. Do you know of any brand/model that does this that I can check out?

[KidRay]

Just to give you an idea of the variation in colour, the image below shows a Eurolite PAR 64 LED 10mm on the left and a Stairville 7x3w flat parcan from the "Mega Tri Bar" on the right, both with RGB all at 100%. As you can see, the Eurolite is noticeably blue.

 

As has been said above, I'm not sure if it is vital in a band lighting situation to get an accurate white, as long as it is punchy enough. The newer lights with 3-in-1 LEDs (red, green and blue in one lens assembly thing) tend to be better colour-wise, and brighter than the parcans with 5mm or 10mm LEDs.

 

Here's a link to a cheap-ish LED can with amber LEDs linky. I'm not recommending this particular unit, just the first one that came up on Google (hint: search for RGBA leds).

 

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/crabspoil/mega-tri-barvseurolite1.jpg

[flukather]

Thanks for the help guys :D I really appreciate it!

 

I havw DMX controller question. When you trigger a chase by audio, does that mean how quick the lights change, or when it starts and/or stops?

[Wol]

I havw DMX controller question. When you trigger a chase by audio, does that mean how quick the lights change, or when it starts and/or stops?

 

Usually will step onto the next step in a chase when it "hears" a beat.

 

Which particular controller?

[flukather]

I havw DMX controller question. When you trigger a chase by audio, does that mean how quick the lights change, or when it starts and/or stops?

 

Usually will step onto the next step in a chase when it "hears" a beat.

 

Which particular controller?

 

 

Showtec Scanmaster MKII 2 :D

 

The manual is here:

 

http://www.dlt.dk/files/5500/WEB%20brugerm...0333_manual.pdf

 

Cheers!