creating light/God rays

[johnp]

Ok, I'm not a lampie, I'm a photographer trying to create light/God rays.

 

I used to work in the AV industry, and talked to various lampies about this, but that was a while ago. Now for a shoot I need to be able to do this.

 

I'm trying to understand how it works, as I am seeing if it can be done with photography strobes rather than continuous lighting.

 

I know this is probably very easy to do with the right equipment, but any pointers would be very welcome.

 

Thanks,

 

John

[AndrewE]

It's quite a vague description of the effect you are trying to achieve. Are you talking about shafts of light, such as would break through the clouds? If you give a more accurate idea of what you are trying to do, it will be easier to advise you on how to achieve it.

 

If it is the shafts of light idea you are looking for, this image from "The Protecting Veil", designed by Mark Jonathan shows a very simple but visually stunning way of creating such an effect:

 

http://web.mac.com/markjonathan1/Site/Welcome_files/Protecting%20Veil-1.jpg

[johnp]

thanks for the reply, sorry I was a bit vague - told you I'm not a lampie!

 

Shafts of light would be a good way explaining it. Usually these would be very narrow, sometimes just the one shaft, sometimes several but smaller shafts but all going in the same direction from the same light source.

 

To create the shaft is there a need to get the balance between the amount light coming from the light source, and the light on the rest of the set?

[tom_the_LD]

I, personally, would use PAR 64's with CP60's (or CP86's if you need lower power lamps) or S4 PARs with VNSP lenses, through quite a bit of haze.

 

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u121/tom_the_drummer/Hairspray%2009%20-%20Queensbury/Hairspray09_179.jpg

The above is from a production of Hairspray I lit - in the above picture it shows 5 x S4 PARs with VNSP lenses in and HPL 575W lamps.

[mark_s]

You need something - smoke or haze - in the air to be able to see the beam, and a directional and relatively hard source of light. It won't not be possible using a photography strobe as they aren't directional and (I imagine) the light given out by them is very soft.

 

I'd recommend using a profile, with a breakup gobo of some sort if you desire multiple beams.

[AndrewE]

+1 for PAR cans with CP60s. Simple, cheap and effective. You will definitely need some haze in order to help define the edges of the beams though.

 

I agree with Mark that you are going to struggle creating this kind of effect with photography strobes as the quality of the light will probably be too even and diffuse.

 

Can you light the "scene" with conventional tungsten sources like PARs, using flash for fill as needed?

[swampman]

Sort of gave up on this after looking at sun rays through clouds... but here goes:

 

Reflector beamlights (Strand used to make a couple of models), Svoboda batten, PAR 56-12v clear lense with a big transformer (there was/is a PAR 46 and a 36 - but a bit feeble) ; or the poor man's alternative but VERY effective: round parabolic reflector from a scrap car headlight wih a halogen bulb (again 12V transformer) and a PAR 56 long nose or sheet metal pipe to stop spill - just be careful though since you need those special tinkering skills and care to not make an inferno (fire) of the studio instead (or maybe His wrath did come down!)

[johnp]

Thanks for the replies - spent some time researching some of the replies.

 

Haze is a given, but other than that I am still trying to understand what it takes to make the shafts/beams of light, and trying to translate that into photography. It maybe the case that I have to use continuous light. Mixing strobes and continuous light is messy - I'll be doing some test shots on Friday.

 

But when it happens in nature, you have a hard light source (the sun), clouds to break up the light (gobo?) or a window in a building and some dust in the atmosphere (haze). Is that all it takes?

 

In photography I can certainly make my light as hard as required, and I can direct it so it very focused. But is more needed?

[BungalowJumper]

Made a good effect for this with 2 x dotted gobos rotating in opposite directions in a source 4, rigged pointing straight down through lots of haze.

 

I think we used a pair of Dot breakups (77053) from DHA Linky to DHA in a double rotator.

 

Due to the rotation the dots would line up and then roll away so it created a sort of "sun shower" effect for want of a better description. Could easily be static with a foil to cover up unwated holes.

 

Unfortunately I'm afraid we failed to take any pictures of it.

[tom_the_LD]

Are any of the replies/images so far the kind of effect you're looking for? If so then it's just a case of getting a very tight light through the haze. Such as a CP60 or VNSP lens.

 

Or are we all completely wrong here?!

 

 

Cheers!

[Big Jay]

Paule Constable is my favorite designer with these kind of effects. If you show a gobo to her, she will most likley to be sick and you will never see a gobo in her designs. If you want rays of light coming from a window, you put a window infront of a 2k/5k fresnel. Their was one story I was told by a LD who was her Prod LX at the time with a show at the Royal Court, She wanted rays of light with bars projected on the stage, she didnt use a gobo, she put a 5k in the grid and shined light through the floor of the grid! This is something you could try, although, maybe your on a budget so gobo could be the way!

[matt_beal]

Yep, thats pretty much all it takes. If you want clouds, or a window, you will need to use a profile with a gobo. PAR lamps will do if all you want is a beam.

 

To address your previous question, yes it does matter to get the balance between the "god light" and the rest of the set right, as to see it you need some contrast. Simply you will need to have a play, and either make the background darker, or the light brighter if you can't see it.

[swampman]

To shape the light you will need a continuous light, you can adjust colour and intensity with colour correction and Neutral Density filters (rather than a dimmer: it will become redder/lowerK. if dimmed) - it's not easy nor recomendable to use strobe/flashes to long...

 

The shape of the beam is an issue and sharp/soft edge and probably most important: beam dispersion. A shaft of light with edges that do not disperse (widen as they become more distant from the source) requires a parallel emision source hence my sugesting the use of parabolic reflectors not lenses unless placed very far away from viewing area - most likely not easy unless you have a BIG studio.

Have fun - I always do with challenges.

[Don Allen]

Always analyse what you are trying to imitate.

 

The sun is a light source a very long distance away so it is in effect a very tiny dot point source of light, and because it is so far away the light beams are travelling in parallel lines, unless reflected off something, or they pass by a black hole.

 

Whatever light fitting you consider, find out what light source it has, i.e. how large is the filament. Par cans have large filaments to survive running so hot, so are not a point source. The front of a par lamp has a built in lens that spreads out the beam so the par lamp without any lens structure on the front, the Very Narrow Spot is the best choice in a Par lamp.

 

To get a narrower point source for Par cans so your light beams are approaching parallel, Ray Hawkins, who was the LD for The Angels, invented the Ray Light that use a small A1/244 Philips 7389 ray lamp in a reflector mounted in the par64. These are used in "light curtains". Ray is also credited for inventing the Pin Spot.

 

The beam light as mentioned by others faces the lamp rearwards into a reflector so that diverging rays of light does not come out the front and parallel rays of light cone out the fixture.

 

Try pin spots as a point source of light as you can focus them individially as a fan array or whatever you need.

[johnp]

Some great responses - thanks.

 

I will be experimenting over the next few days, will report back with what happens.