electric seating bank

[amosuz]

hi all our school has just purchased an electric seating in the hall I was wandering if anyone

could inform me of were I can get some health and saftey procedures for it. ive looked on hse website

but could not find anything. Can anyone help please, as this is causing me a nightmare with staff.

thanks.........

[Brian]

You really ought to start with the manufacturer.

[kerry davies]

The installers should have left a method statement of some kind with whoever oversaw the installation. If not the manufacturer should have supplied all paperwork to whoever authorised the purchase. It might well be "filed" for safe keeping somewhere in the school but failing that, Brian is on the button.

 

What you are looking for is a Method Statement or "how it should be done" element and only they can inform you on that. It may be downloadable from their website.

[matt_beal]

What's the problem you're having?

[amosuz]

hi I have asked the company about it and they said there is nothing really. I was looking for something

about leaving the bank out with children around. I should have said it is a free standing unit with clear

access under it. the schools answer is to leave the bank out with a couple of screens to stop pupils from

getting under. my thoughts is that they have created a nice den for the pupils to hide in. help would be

grateful as I feel this is an accident waiting to happen.

[Brian]

I'm not quite sure what you're looking for.

 

It sounds like you've identified a possible hazard/risk - the possibility of children hiding under the seating and being put at risk when the unit is retracted. So you need to mange that risk. I reckon you have three possible control measures...

 

1) Don't retract it.

 

2) Keep children away from it.

 

3) Retract it in a controlled manner having made sure that children aren't hiding under it.

[paulears]

Brian's comments are pretty well what the risk assessment would say.

 

The risk is that when retracting the seating it is possible for children to be inside the mechanism.

 

The solution is is two sections.

1. Ensure the activation of the mechanism is controlled by a responsible person and disabled by suitable means when unsupervised.

2. Ensure the mechanism is clear of people before commencing retraction.

 

So if the buttons that work it are easily prodded by anyone, and it would start to move - either lock them, or remove the power and lock that!

[Stuart91]

my thoughts is that they have created a nice den for the pupils to hide in. help would be

grateful as I feel this is an accident waiting to happen.

 

If the worry is that children hiding under the seats will be crushed when it retracts, there are a number of control measures you can take to prevent that from happening. The most obvious one is to ensure that the area is checked beforehand. It might be best to move the controls so that the operator has a clear view under the seats when they push the button, rather than hope that operators will be diligent and make the effort to check every time.

 

Of course, if the worry is "We have created a great place for kids to hide out and smoke/drink/copulate" then you will have a bunch of very different control measures to think about, and it's unlikely that the manufacturers of the seating will be able to be of much help...

[amosuz]

Thanks for the reply, we have procedure for moving in and out, but its more the later comment about creating a place for the kids to hide, now they say its because its just another job for the caretakers

to do even though we have 4. we have just spent six grand on motors for it. I think I will see the head

and tell him my concern. I just wanted to see if their was any HSE regs for it.

[WiLL]

It's worth mentioning that the underneath of retractable seating banks are rarely safe places to be even when not being retracted. I have a two inch scar on my back from standing up under mine and not realising I was a row furthur forward than normal and embedding a corner of metal into my back. Very painful I can assure you. I would devise some screens to block access to the seating bank's innards when it is out and signage to deter exploring pupils.

[paulears]

The real issue isn't when you're using them - because you're there. It's when the kids are in there unsupervised. I suspect I'd be more concerned by claims from parents for grease on clothing, or plucks on sharp items.

 

I suspect that you're groping for some kind of legislation that will stop them being used? If schools put in clever equipment and then cannot devise even the most basic of safety systems themselves - maybe they shouldn't do it?

 

You must have plenty of places kids can go that are similar to this. Boiler rooms, little used cupboards, cubby holes above the stage. If you're really that worried (and for the life of me I cannot see what the issue is - hundreds of these have been installed in schools now) then block off the access with panels.

this is causing me a nightmare with staff.

As in they are moaning at you because they can't stop the kids getting inside, or they don't care if they get inside and you do?

 

If you are the technician, then surely depending on the school, this will be a problem/not a problem, or your problem, or their problem?

 

Personally - seems a lot of fuss and bother. If the movement thing isn't an issue - what exactly is the safety problem with being under it? I can't quite get the handle on this one?

[TomHoward]

We have a system like this, and we've got a safe system of work displayed in the control room - it goes something like this:

 

Conditions: To be used at all times when the seating is operated or in place

 

Identified risks: Seats falling forward / not locking in properly

Injury from exposed frames from unauthorised entry under seating when extended

Crushing injury from unauthorised entry under seating when operated

 

Control: Don't go under seating

Final check on all seats to ensure locked before seating is used

Only authorised personnel to operate seating and Maintenance Manager is to keep record of authorised personnel

Control unit to be kept secure at all other times

 

Not exactly the longest or most complex system but outlines the major risks and sensible methods to control them. Shouldn't cause too much of a headache unless you over-analyse it.

 

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

If the movement thing isn't an issue - what exactly is the safety problem with being under it? I can't quite get the handle on this one?

I have to say that for ours, when it's not in movement it's still not a very safe place to be under, there's a lot of angle iron overhead, lots of beams, tracks on the floor, etc - and it's dark, as there's no lights under there and it's too low to get any light from the windows. That said, it's no more dangerous than standing behind an HGV reversing up to the kitchen loading bay, and we manage to work around that on a daily basis without anyone pulling their hair out.

[kerry davies]

Having re-read the whole thread it seems to me that Amos is getting confused between Health and Safety needs and pupil discipline. If the admirably brief Method Statement/Safe System of Work outlined by Tom were adopted or No Entry signs or barriers were provided then all H&S aspects would appear to be covered. As Paul states, hundreds of schools and colleges have this kit with no problems so the area to be addressed is school policy not equipment safety.

 

Keeping pupils out of restricted areas then becomes that wonderful thing an SEP (somebody elses problem) and school discipline should be brought to bear. Use of H&S legislation to remedy non-safety difficulties got us into the tabloid "elf'n'safety" negativity in the first place....and schools seem to be one of the greatest culprits in this.

[amosuz]

I see what your all saying and the issue is not really, about HSE I just want the thing to be put away when not in use

because when the bank is away there's no problem, I want the lazy caretakers to do there job and then what do you

know no issue. and its not the the discipline, although we do have a few choice individuals. we are a performing arts school

and lots of independent learning goes on, and kid are inquisitive. I have a lot of experience in the industry and spent

20 years touring with bands and shows so I am just trying to bring our school into a safe place to work and learn.

Thanks for all you comments its been helpful....

[adamharman]

I want the lazy caretakers to do there job

 

Is it actually their job? Caretakers are traditionally responsible for cleaning and maintenance of the building, although that obviously depends on what exactly they're contracted to do. In my (admittedly limited) experience of schools and universities, getting equipment in the right place at the right time was always done by the technicians or the member of staff that wanted to use it.

 

I've had my share of injuries from the underside of retractable seating too and agree that students should be kept out from there. Keeping it packed away when no staff are present seems to be an obvious solution.......