Fair grounds for dismissal?

[ibanezrg]

Hey guys, just keen to hear your thoughts.

 

I worked at an Audio and Lighting company for 6 months when I was recently fired.

 

I had never been given any formal training in lighting equipment, desks or anything related and this is the same for audio.

All I had picked up is what I watched and the very basics.

 

For prepping a gig I was told by the senior and supervising staff member to change a clamp type on some what they called multipars (found out it was

some cheap chinese knockoffs of the S4 Parnell with stipped lens) and to also 'flash out' to see if it needed a globe change. Im that new that I didnt even know

putting fingerprints on a globe would leave oils that smelled and did something to them.

 

So apparently at a gig some of the 'multipars' 2nd lenses had broken. I was never in my 6 months told that they had a 2nd lens, cracked often, how to dismantle the parnels or to check for cracks.

 

So I got the call saying I was fired. I had never before made any mistakes, broken, damaged or lost any gear previously.

 

What do you guys think?

Im 18 just as a bit of background.

 

Also on another note, we are meant to safety tag every 3 months but never do/did, all we did was plug something in, see if it worked or not. Is safety tagging meant to go beyond the realms of 'work/doesnt work' when safety tagging?

[AndyJones]

Well I would say that you aren't missing out on anything. If you are working for a company that won't even off basic training, then they aren't really worth working for. You are only young and will find some other company who can take you under their wing and teach you properly.

 

With regards to "safety tagging" items, I think you may be referring to some thing we would call PAT testing. there is plenty more info about this on the Blue Room.

 

I'm sorry I didn't directly answer your original question. It's a difficult one to answer I guess it depends on whether you told the company you didn't have any knowledge, maybe they were expecting that you knew what you were doing?

 

Regards,

 

AndyJones

[gareth]

Sounds like your bosses were too tight to buy proper Multipars and bought cheap far-eastern knockoffs instead, then needed to look for someone/something to blame when the kit failed on a job and cost them money. As the new boy, you copped for it. I wouldn't worry - as Andy says, as a young technician starting off in the business, if you're keen to learn and willing to muck in when needed you'll have no bother finding more work to help you get started. And it sounds like your old bosses were a bunch of tw@ts anyway, so you're better off out of there!

[paulears]

Milo - your profile doesn't say exacty where you are, but I suspect maybe not the UK? Some of your terminology, like 'globe' is not UK common, so any advice we give might be wrong as if you are abroad, it may be incorrect. Here, with 6 months service you can be 'fired' for nothing at all - it's sufficient just to say bye. However - after 6 months, I'd expect you to know not to touch quartz glass with your fingers - after all, a little note comes with each one explaining this. It seems strange they didn't tell you, but you should have known, really. Have you been doing just audio? Here - we do PAT tests (or rather should do them) but not every company does. Some are a little less stringent, perhaps just sticking stickers on rather than actually testing!

 

By the way - fingerprints don't make a smell. All that happens is that the natural oils from your skin darken with the heat of the glass envelope, the dark area then gets hotter and darkens further. Eventually the lamp fails early due to temperature.

Before you get another - crank your skills level up a notch or two. After 6 months, I'd expect useful people to have almost trained themselves by observation and research in their own time. That's perhaps harsh, but I don't have time to train them!

[Shaggy]

It does sound a tad unfair, but due to the nature of the industry (low margins, competitive market, readily available low skilled labour) there a plenty of people and companies out there who take a relaxed view of regulations and human decency. Learn your lesson and move on, there's always another dickhead to work for.

 

Paul - I wouldn't find someone with 6 months experience not knowing how to change a lamp surprising.

[paulears]

No - but rather sad. I've had somebody plaguing me for a backstage job - she works at the venue in the box office, and hates it. Good reason to want to work backstage. I've set here a test - next week I'm going to ask her some basic questions about the kind of things we do. Mainly theatrical jargon, and basic stuff like connector names and uses. I'm then going to ask her to plug a fresnel into a dip trap circuit number 59 - which is hard power, always on. I'm going to leave 13,15 and 16A TRS laying around, along with a single big fresnel, a floor stand and some par cans and profiles. The instructions will ask her to put it stage left just onstage from no2 portal (which actually has a huge 2 on the upstage side.

 

If she can do it, she can have the job because it will mean she found out and remembered things. I briefed her using all these words as examples of the kind of thing we do. If she says "this is a 15A cable, isn't it?" I'll be happy, but if she can't even work out the basics, I'm not interested. Anyway - she also smokes, and that annoys me because smokers keep saying "OK if go for a quick fag" and then they're never there when the next job to do happens, leaving it up to the non-smokers!

 

That sounds as if I discriminate against smokers, doesn't it? Heaven forbid!

[Just Some Bloke]

Paul - I wouldn't find someone with 6 months experience not knowing how to change a lamp surprising.

Are you joking?!!!!

 

I would find someone with 1 month's experience not knowing how to change a lamp surprising. Whenever we have someone new in the team I'd make sure that when they were changing a lamp for the first time I point out that they should not touch the glass, even if I was risking the accusation of "teaching my grandmother to suck eggs".

 

Obviously I know nothing about this situation and cannot possibly comment, but I do know that when I've had to sack someone before it's never been just for one thing. A old friend of mine used to call it a "cap-on-the-toothpaste" situation:

"why did you split up with your boyfriend?"

" [this], [that], [the other]... and not only that but he never put the cap back on the bl00dy tootpaste!".

[lightsource]

To be honest, JSB, I would agree with with the both of you (+ Paulears).

 

As JSB suggests, If I ever had a new employee who had very little knowledge, as the OP suggests, then I would automatically assume the knew nothing, and then train him on the actual fixtures / consoles / environment I was expecting him to operate. But then again, that is my training policy, and others may be different

 

As most companies (from a new employee perspective) need to have an RA and H&S policy from their point of view, then basic training of that employee is a must, if only to satisfy their own internal safety / operational requirements.

 

I would question though, that the OP was 'fired' after 6 months. Probationary period maybe?

 

To Ibanezrg:

 

You sound like a guitarist :)

 

I think more detail is required here, to help you more, and we are here to help.

 

We need to know where you're from, an idea of the contract / interview / what was expected of you when you gained your job, what was basis of the employer hiring you, and also the basis of the employer firing you.

 

Edit to add:

 

dip trap

 

Curious.... I don't know what one is either :** laughs out loud **:

[ibanezrg]

Im from Sydney.

 

My dad knew the boss who said he'd fully take me in and get me started in the industry. He knew I had 0 experience at all.

I didnt just find out about the globes now haha but basically I was never formally trained in anything at all. But I did know some basics of how to set up

a standard Dj rig etc and I just started to do some lighting on a Hog lighting desk.

 

Point is I didnt even know they were heinous chinese knock offs of proper parnells. I called another Sydney lighting director and hes said that ###### probably

hit the fan at the gig, I'm the one with the least experience/youngest there so I copped it.

[lightsource]

Im from Sydney.

 

My dad knew the boss who said he'd fully take me in and get me started in the industry. He knew I had 0 experience at all.

I didnt just find out about the globes now haha but basically I was never formally trained in anything at all. But I did know some basics of how to set up

a standard Dj rig etc and I just started to do some lighting on a Hog lighting desk.

 

Point is I didnt even know they were heinous chinese knock offs of proper parnells. I called another Sydney lighting director and hes said that ###### probably

hit the fan at the gig, I'm the one with the least experience/youngest there so I copped it.

 

I have no knowledge of the laws in Australia, but stop calling the Chinese Knock offs, it doesn't really matter. You were working for a company, that should have given you training for the fixtures you were using, unless you had aleady told them you had experience.

 

Now,

 

Can you reply to the other questions I asked? or is this too much for you. Unless you do, then there's not much point, as you are being far too vague aboout your circumstances.

[ibanezrg]

Sorry mate, was in a rush.

 

I was under casual labour/work. But so was everyone as our rosters were random and couldnt be put down as part time.

I was told I would be eventually fully trained in whatever field I chose (lighting/video-vision). I chose lighting about 2 months in.

The reason for being fired was "Sorry but you gotta be the fall guy 'cause apparently the multipars had cracked lenses when they arrived at the gig". I was most definitely fired. Its bit of a common

thing at this company for 2 reasons, the boss has ego battles with others and finds a reason/ treats staff like ###### so they move to a better company. I was expected to begin to learn how to op eventually and to do the standard bumping in/out

[Just Some Bloke]

dip trap

 

Curious.... I don't know what one is either :** laughs out loud **:

Ooh, I know that one!! :)

 

A dip trap is a hole in the floor in which are set sockets (usually lighting sockets but can be anything), which are then covered again with a wood or metal cover (to avoid people falling in the hole). They often run up and down stage in the wings for cabling up side-light booms, for instance.

[cfmonk]

I find it strange they bothered to fire you. My casual staff just don't get asked to come in again...

 

Anyways, did you at any point say "I don't know how to do that could you show me please?"

 

If you did not then you do not have a leg to stand on. It is infuriating, frustrating, and dangerous when people are AFRAID TO ASK FOR HELP. Yes, I can see situations with rubbish companies where asking for help is shown as a sign of weakness but all my chaps know that the only thing which makes me mad is if they mess something up and then say "but I had never done that before" but didn't tell anybody at the time!

 

It's nigh on impossible to know who has done exactly which specific tasks before in a busy large team and so bosses have to rely on people making accurate assessments of their own skills.

 

If you did ask to be shown / told how to then your better off out of there.

[ibanezrg]

I always know to ask. It never does harm to ask but it does to wreck equipment or a job. I didnt know a simple light like that had a second lens. I was never told about it nor was I told to ever look for problems like that.

 

Im sending him an email with help from a lawyer of how its fair etc of why I was fired. Its all calm and casual to. Nothing inflammatory.

Im keen to see his response.

[ceecrb1]

Honestly I´d agree with others... there are 2 things I´d say.

 

First off "The only person who makes no mistakes is the person who does nothing"...

 

Also, if they they used you as a skape goat to show a client some action had been taken etc etc, they were going to do it to you either today or tomorrow or after the next phuq up.. be it your fault or not.

 

Trust me and others who have said the same thing, a company worth working for is one who pays more attention to its staff and staff training, and will accept that their staff are humans and (within reason) defend them when genuine mistakes are made.

 

 

Move on, forget about them, get a better job and in a few years time while they are still doing small gigs you can send them photos of yourself opping at big-name band world tours.