Specification and Design of School Drama/Recording Studio

[schw84]

Arrrhh Where do I begin. I'm a Surveyor with no idea what I’m specifying. I have an existing Schools drama room, which I have to turn into a recoding area. I am building a booth and control room extension and have the relevant acoustical knowledge, but the equipment, what to use etc has lost me. The existing drama room is to become the recording hall.

 

I have had the following equipment specified for the recording control room.

Apple Mac pro one 2.66 8GB etc pc with graphics card etc which I think is an ok spec,

Custom console desk for souncraft ghost 24LE mixer and obviously the analogue Ghost 24LE mixer

A Ghost 24 meter bridge

MOTU 24 I/O 24-channel interface.

Then a whole load of Microphones which I assume will be fine.

 

My questions are.... what is this equipment like? Is it ok? And more importantly should I be getting a digital mixer rather than an analogue?? As they will use the Mac for recording. Its only a school but they want to rent it to external users as the actual space is going to be perfect acoustically for recording, as I said the equipment is where I’m lost.

 

 

My other issue is the XLR and DMX problems

I want to install face plates for XLR's I need 2No 8 plates one for the control wall the other for the solo booth, I don’t know what cabling I should be specifying to link the two or what plates? I then have the same issue with a 4No 24 port XLR plates and the cables between these. I also don’t know if I should be putting jack to jacks in as well as XLRs and what cables??

 

As you can see I don’t have a clue.....

 

My final issue is the DMX lighting system. The drama dept want to put a lighting consol in the control booth for some reason. I know I need to put the DMX wiring etc as far away as possible from the sound, but what wall plates do I specify? I think I want 2No plates with 4No 3 pin and 4No 5 pin DMX ports? But I don’t know, where do I get these etc and what cables between them as they go through sound resistant wall as do the XLRs.

 

Sorry it’s so jumbled, but please help as I don’t have a clue what I’m asking for it is a school so I want good infrastructure which will last but the equipment can be run of the mill.

 

Thanks for help in advance

 

Rob

[Dj Dunc]

If it is to become a Recording Studio, I.e not for live performances, you dont need DMX lighting of any form. Scrap that, get some good working light in, and spend the money elsewhere. Dont know why they would want to do that as the whole environment is not good for members of the pubic. Its nice to see surveyors asking whats best for a change :wacko:

 

You need a decent pair of studio monitors, (generally 2 sets, nearfield and mains). We have a pair of PMC IB1S on mains and a pair of KRK on nearfield.

 

See here http://www.soundonsound.com/ for more detailed advice.

 

You can create one of three setups.

 

1. Fully Digital.

 

2. Analogue.

 

3. Hybrid

 

 

 

1. Fully digital systems do not have a mixing desk. All the inputs usually will go through a preamp (usually a tube setup) and then into the soundcard. Also there will be a control surface attached (we have a Control 24). There will be a set of monitors, a few racks of playback and everything else (processing etc) will be done on software.

 

2. Analogue systems generally have a mixing desk, lots of rack processing (gates, compressors, effects etc) . tape decks, and a patchbay. This is the more traditional setup.

 

3. Hybrid systems often have all of the above on an analogue system, with the addition of a computer to be patched into the analogue system (usually after the mixing desk).

 

Applying to all things:

 

You need a decent wall box system between the recording room and the control room for transmission of sound to the desk. If you are planning 16 ways of recording (a good starting number) then have at least an additional 8 inputs, and have 8 returns. (so for a 16 way recording setup, you would need a 24/8 multicore. This needs to be in all rooms where recording will take place. (so you dont run XLR cables between rooms etc).

 

Ventilation. Make sure there is decent ventilation to all rooms but make sure that it CAN BE ISOLATED and that there is minimal spill through the ducts between the rooms.

 

Power. More is better. Studios require lots of sockets, you can never have too many.

 

Microphone stands. A mixture of high long booms, high short boom, short long boom and short short booms are handy (for recording drums and the like).

 

Cabling. Sources of cables are Canford, VDC, Klotz, Thomann, CPC etc etc. Google is your friend here. Make sure there is removable trunking and room for expansion where the cables go through the rooms.

 

Windows. Make sure that there is adequate room too see the performers from the control room. light and airy is your friend, so dont worry about windows to the outside world.

 

Recording rooms. More is better, but in an ideal world id like to see a drum room, vocal booth and then a seperate main room.

 

Control booth (and ideally in the other rooms too): Get some eggboxing and sound deadning material in there, on as many flat surfaces as you can. Even if you design them to be acoustically "nice", its not what we want. we want "dead".

 

and finally.

 

Put your location in your profile. a member might be able to come and help you on site.

[paulears]

There are a few oddities here.

 

A Ghost??? It's pretty ancient technology and really something so old, design philosophy wise, that I can't really see it being viable - it's also expensive! Practically everything now interfaces digitally, so an analogue mixer is a bit surprising - and wasteful of space. Most schools and colleges I visit (for BTEC) have moved right away from conventional mixers - and being honest, I've got two here in my studio, but apart from doing a bit of duty mixing a few sources together and providing a way to get mic level up to line, I could do without them. The project finished for a client yesterday used two faders on the mixer - to give me a manual volume control - that's it. There are now proper control surfaces for Logic, Sonar, Cubase and Protools - and an old fashioned mixer has no place. meter bridges are pretty pointless to - the computer screen has these things. Two, or even three monitors are not a luxury - they're a necessity with modern software that has so many windows that need to be seen.

 

On your tie-line front. DMX and audio should be kept separate, but the truth is that in practice, many people treat them as swappable. I only remember a few days ago when somebody wanted to repatch that two years ago, I sent DMX down one of the audio tie-lines for a quick bodge - and never put it back. Having 5 pin and 3 pin sockets in different boxes does help stop idiots trying to jam 5 pin plugs in 3 pin holes - but that's about it.

 

When you're cabling - don't forget to include headphone distribution. In the recording area they'll need somewhere to plug headphones into and amps to drive them.

 

Data storage and security will be your worst problem. Networked high speed service is possible and many schools and colleges are streaming their audio this way, while others use removable drives on each computer. If the plan is to hire, then you need a properly designed system to protect the integrity of data - especially if it's exam or course work. Some places use caddy style drives, and give them out to the students on request. Others do it with a proper open access system with passwords. This is great if you have an IT dept that understands audio recording demands and data rates - many don't.

 

I guess being a surveyor means you have the isolation and heating/ventilation under control - but how about acoustic treatment? Plenty of schools (not so much colleges) have nice rooms that sound dreadful - all parallel walls and floor/ceilings.

 

One thing to check is that the Macs you choose are silent - many make quite a noise, and some places remote everything and put the actual computer in a different room - this is bliss!

 

Whatever cabling you put in will be insufficient. What I've also started to do is wire each tie-line both ends with male and female connectors, so they're bi-directional. From the lighting comment about them putting the control in with the audio, I assume your window design allows the window to the performing space to be removed. The worst ever scenario will be attempting to do live sound with a sound proof window - never works.

EDIT

Could this be the reason for the analogue mixer? For live sound? If so - the Ghost is still wrong - doesn't have the right blend of facilities to do live mixing very well, it was a recording desk.

 

A digital mixer, if you really have to do live sound from this location is the solution - plenty of them now - but we can't help unless we know more info on what you intend the system to actually do.

[Jivemaster]

For performance to audience you need the window out or at least well open so that you can hear the show properly.

For recording you need the window sealed closed and use the monitors and phones to check the sound in the electronics.

 

You will NEVER have enough cable in, and in the right place. Hard power for studio use -cabs, keys and general wall warts. Plan sufficient acoustically sealed ducting for system expansion.

 

The need for DMX indicates that the space will be used for performance. DMX needs to be run as a daisy chain so create the DMX in the control room and use an active isolated splitter then take one output of the splitter to each DMX outlet on the wall. DMX is specified as being a 5 pin XLR connector so usually there is no conflict with audio. Sub standard DMX sometimes uses three pin XLR.

DMX comes out of sockets, Audio comes out of plugs.

[TomHoward]

Is the room to be used as a live performance space as well - is that the purpose of the DMX tie lines? I notice there's no dimmers spec'd, so I assume it's just tie lines to allow a touring / cased dimmer rack to plug in?

 

It may also be worth adding a location to your profile, as as always there may be some local members happy to look over the space & specs with you.

[Jivemaster]

If you have the acoustics of the control room and the studio sorted, the next two things IMO are the window and the ducting for cables. The ducting needs to isolate the two areas for sound. The window needs to be sealed for recording and totally open for live work. Get that sorted and you should have the start of a very good job. The equipment will be replaced several times in the life of the facility building. The audio will be all digital for recording and likely all analogue for live work.

[schw84]

If you have the acoustics of the control room and the studio sorted, the next two things IMO are the window and the ducting for cables. The ducting needs to isolate the two areas for sound. The window needs to be sealed for recording and totally open for live work. Get that sorted and you should have the start of a very good job. The equipment will be replaced several times in the life of the facility building. The audio will be all digital for recording and likely all analogue for live work.

 

 

Guys thanks for the posts I really don't have a clue what I'm doing and I dont want to mess it up.

I have the room sorted as I know about acoustics etc. I've got 2No purpose built windows coming from Black Cat Acoustics, I was going to have them built on site, but don't trust job blogs builder to do it properly so its worth the extra money.

 

Anyway the reason I need DMX is because the room is to be used for drama performances as well as the main recording studio, its 12m x 8m and currently the drama room, I am temping the sound etc with heavy velour curtains and acoustic ceilings I'm playing with the absorption in the walls to also bring the reverb times down.

 

Now I had a meeting today and the drama teacher wants to potentially put lights in this room and control them form the control booth. hence the DMX panels. I don't want them interfering with the sound stuff though.

 

The recording stuff is separate. I'm not tendering the works, the works have been tendered to the contractor who is building the job. I have consulted one company at present as they offer continual over the phone help for free on the equipment, and as no one really knows how to use this equipment in the school at present they may need this. This is why I was going to use them but if as your saying its expensive and old hat, I dont want to be getting it. For example the desk is £3500 and the desk box is £1800 or something like that as a guide.

 

I will tell the contractor who to get the equipment off, as I am agreeing it with the school, so heres the cheeky part. I'm sure some of you sell this stuff, I would be greatful if someone Pm'd me if they were interested in supplying it. Remember its a school. I have a budget of about 20k to set the equipment up in the recording studio itself ie computer, desk microphones etc. I have to run all the equipment by the school but if people can help I would be happy to have them quote and see what the school think. Its in Lincolnshire just off the A1.

 

I really wished I'd found this forum sooner I only just stumbled on it when searching for DMX plates I would have already been sorted.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Rob

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

I am from Cambridge but this job is in Lincolnshire. I have had our acoustic team help design the room to bringing it up to the mark, the problem is making it child proof is very difficult, this is to teach 14-19 year olds, so it will take a battering. I have thickened the walls, and put false walls inside these with neoprene gaskets between to dampen the sound. All the ceilings are suspended below plasterboard to also trap sound. The Air handling units are designed to the correct rating. The problem when doing any referb space of this mannor is getting the building right and using the right materials I would love to use the stuff in the cinema on the walls, but its not going to last 5 mins.

 

I think they want to record live performances of bands etc and choirs in the main room. But as I don't understand the equipment I dont know what they need. I also cant use Protools as its a school and they need to be able to teach kids quick, I think logic is meant to be easy to learn? So what I need is a stand alone package to record stuff!!! PLS HELP!!

 

 

** laughs out loud ** sorry I have come on your forum and sound like a complete idiot, at least if nothing else I am really appreciative that there are people out there who actually understand this stuff.

 

Also If anyone is in the area of the site (Bourne Lincolnshire) has a band etc, the head would probably let you use the equipment for tuition or occasional aid? The space will be good when I've finished, and he is eager to then use more funding to potentially give the community the facilities.

[mervaka]

I really don't have a clue what I'm doing

 

without sounding rude, I think this is your problem. you're spending £20k of a school's budget on equipment you know nothing about. would some of that money be better spent on a consultant to come and assess the room and draw some plans up for this aspect of the install?

[schw84]

I really don't have a clue what I'm doing

 

without sounding rude, I think this is your problem. you're spending £20k of a school's budget on equipment you know nothing about. would some of that money be better spent on a consultant to come and assess the room and draw some plans up for this aspect of the install?

 

Not rude but il explain it better, I have a list of equipment which the school has been sold into by people who claim to be consultants, they have had several quotes for that equipment. I originally was just providing the space, but when money is ring fenced within capital funding, contracts have to be let and when more than one party is involved, subcontracts as a part of the main cant be undertaken within the contract conditions as stipulated within the partnering agreement for that local authority.

 

Now I know that no one will understand the second part of that paragraph and its the same with me and the equipment. I've had consultants come and quote me for the acoustic design of the room, but they were for over £20k alone for just acoustic design, I was fortunate that one of our acoustic engineers who deals with huge schemes like windfarms etc has an interest in recording design and undertook the works, else the government would not have spent the money on that they already halved the equipment budget for the room.

 

They all tell me 20k is nothing in equipment terms, but who am I to know. I need a consultant, however the way it usually works is someone comes and specs equipment then we include them in a list of providers of the equipment. This is the case here, until today I believed that the equipment specified was good, but now I'm feeling like I have had the wool pulled over my eyes, which makes me alittle cross as I am happy to put work peoples way and pay a fair price for it, but it appears they have specified something which is substandard and I could have got better elsewhere.

 

I really require a seller of equipment who would like to put a price in for supplying equipment for this use. I can get other quotes but to be honest I think I would be better just printing a list of any equipment on here and you guys scrutinizing it as at least I'd have a better idea. The main problem is government funding if there was a technician at the school then they would know what they wanted, but they dont have one so the teachers are just saying what to get.

 

Rob

[Jivemaster]

"..........snipped ... so the teachers are just saying what to get."

 

Possibly based on some random items that a 15 year old has once seen, in a studio that has evolved rather than a new installation.

[paulears]

Sadly, it's my experience (and I've visited over 50 schools and colleges this year) that many people are in a similar position and waste their budget on things somebody without educational experience thought was important, but from the pratical viewpoint are useless and just don't get used!

 

Great equipment never produces guaranteed good work. Very often, the kit makes good results really difficult to obtain through ignorance.

 

Conflict between music and performing arts is commonplace - their needs are very, very different - but the powers that be assume wrongly that they are very similar?

[Jivemaster]

Microphones for Rock n Roll, theatre and studio recording are usually three completely separate disciplines. Be very careful of radio mics as the allocated RF spectrum changes in 2012 many radio mics still on sale will be useless come 2012 and you will be blamed for bad kit!

[bassnote]

I see that you are probably in a bit above your depths hear!

 

At Plasa I saw a really nice new mixing desk that kinda mixes the analogue studio / digital studio.

 

the Allen and heath GS-R24M (rrp £5559) which includes a firewire interface and motorized faders.

http://www.allen-heath.com/uk/gs-r24.asp

 

I would ring them to see when it is going to be available etc as this looks like the prefect solution for you. Other than this I would NOT get an analogue console for the studio and go for pre amps and controller as the console WILL just be used as preamps!!!

 

For monitors - have a look at Genelec or the Yamaha as they have metal grills in-front of the cones which protect the speakers from kids fingers!

 

As for the mac, what software are you running? A fair few schools are based on PC's in there music rooms so therefore use Cubase. So is it worth getting both Cubase and Logic for the computer?

 

A worth while investment is to get one of the waves pack's for plugins - as there will be limited or no external compressors / gates / effects - it is good to get the industry standard plug in pack that makes all recordings sound pro!

http://www.dv247.com/computer-music-softwa...e-bundle--15691

 

Cable and boxes... no - no need for jack inputs as that is what DI's are for... for this I would really recommend a studio installer to do as there is a lot of custom cable to be done and a heck of a lot of soldering. I would distrube the whole room with the 24 channels - the first 12 near where the dummer will be, the next 6 to the left, the last 6 to the right, then have the "solo" rooms doubleing up some of these channels - for example have ch 20 to 24 to be doubled (just a wire split) to the solo room so the channel can still be used in the room.

 

Cable used for the XLR panels should be good quality multi-core cable - to get the flexibility you can run multiple 8 ways.

http://www.vdctrading.com/products_gridvie...;ProductID=2#p2

 

Again - I don't want to be doing your work for you. Get an expert in... I have fitted many school studios.

 

Peter

[Bobbsy]

Well, without getting into the rights and wrongs of the situation, a few comments on the equipment list:

 

The Soundcraft Ghost is somewhat dated as a mixing desk and wouldn't be my first choice. However, it will do the job if it's already committed. It's also not the best choice if the same mixer is to be used live.

 

Those who have told you that you need good monitor speakers are spot on and, to do this justice, they could be a reasonable chunk of your budget. You will almost certainly need some form of foldback speakers in the recording space.

 

You mention the computer, but obviously you need some form of software on that computer for the recording and mixing job. Is this included somewhere? If not, you need find some money. I'll leave it to others to recommend software for a Mac...I'm a PC person in my studio.

 

You will definitely need headphones, plus headphone splitters/amps in the studio for recording--as many as the maximum number of people expected in the studio.

 

You will need mic stands (heavy duty ones possibly depending on the mics specified) plus a pile of XLR cables of various lengths to get to your wall boxes.

 

The wall boxes and cabling will need to cater for audio flowing in both connections--for monitor speakers, headphones, etc. Consider this when speccing the sex of the connectors.

 

Some basic acoustic screens will be needed in the studio to provide at least some isolation between areas/instruments. You could likely get away with fairly conventional office-style dividers if the budget is tight.

 

Most of your description of the acoustic work is providing isolation but you will almost certainly need some wall treatments, especially if the room is "box-like" with parallel walls. The moving acoustic screens will also help with this.

 

Have you worked to any kind of goal spec in terms of your acoustics? Or is it just "as best as you can" for the money? For a recording space, I'd be aiming for around NR30 in a school environment.

 

In terms of your wall plates and cabling, if you can install ducts with extra space and draw ropes somebody will thank you in the future. I'd also throw in some Cat5 stuff just in case since this can be used for almost anything from extra audio to video to data.

 

Does your budget have to include furnishings? You need a desk that can hold the mixer and computer, and possibly (if you can afford it) a rack for things like the MOTU. A patch bay to terminate your tie lines to and from the studio would be a nice touch if you can wangle it.

 

I'm sure I'll think of more later, but I have to go serve dinner!

 

Bob