Walkie Talkies as Cans?

[itsnotlying]

Hello there. Im a new member to this forum but have used it a lot when looking for ideas and solutions to problems.

 

What im wondering is...I am Stage Managing my old schools panto this christmas and for a while there has been talk about getting a cans or intercom system but they are just to expensive. Can you get walkie talkies which when have a headset put through them are completley silent (for obvious reasons) and has any one ever used them for the purpose of communication backstage. Obviously being a school the layout is terrible, and if we need to talk to someone at the lighting desk we basically have to run through the auditorium! Not ideal! So we were just looking for a cheap (ish) way to communicate between SM and DSM and LFX and Sound.

 

Also this is my first show I will be SMing so do you have any tips for controlling a show with about 40 14 year olds! (the joys of a christmas panto) and just SMing in general.

 

Thanks in advance

Ross <_<

[Unfathomable]

I have used earpiece sets for walkietalkies which have been reasonably quiet (earbud style) but the constant need for a hand to press the button, plus the fact only one person can talk at once (and its not always the SM!) means it gets annoying very quickly.

[rossmck]

Would you consider hiring a talkback system ? (put your location in your profile too - it's part of the T&Cs here and there may be someone locally who can help you) - two or 3 headsets and a PSU isn't going to cost much and it'll work far better than any walkie-talkie type radios.

 

Decent ones, which support voice-activated transmit and headsets, are still going to be pricey and will likely cost more than the "proper" cans solution.

[Ynot]

+1 for the hire in a decent comms setup.

 

For all the usual reasons.

Theatre comms in general MUST be duplex (ie you can speak and hear at the SAME time). Using radios is fine for specific tasks - ie when cue-ing crew who relly only need a GO and can't be tied down to a cabled system, but for general show use, you really need to be able to have the 2-way instant setup.

 

Comms is NOT expensive to hire

[TomHoward]

The cheaper end of the walkie talkie market never seem to be reliable enough for calling a show, or show-critical communication. If you need to communicate to discuss what went wrong and find the missing drummer then it may be worth investigating, but for constant communication it may be more appropriate to look at hiring comms as suggested.

[GridGirl]

Using radios as comms is not ideal - as several others have said, there are problems involved; the one I have the most issues with is the fact that only one person can talk at once. Quite regularly I interrupt comms conversations with a standby, and if you're on radios where only one person can talk at once you can't do that. Hiring a basic comms setup shouldn't cost you too much - less than buying radios I suspect.

 

In terms of general stage management and controlling casts, you have to assert your authority fairly carefully. Going on a power trip and throwing your weight around because you can is not going to work (not that I'm saying you would do that!); I've often found that sitting down with the cast and explaining that you are there to help make the show be as good as it can possibly be - which hopefully they want as well - and so if you ask them to do something then it's for a very good reason, can work pretty well. Also try and stress that if you ask them to do something it isn't a starting point for negotiation (I did a few productions with law students - they do an annual Law Revue every year - and god almighty, asking them to do anything used to turn into a three-ring circus if they thought they didn't need to do whatever it was!). Be fair and firm and you should be fine. What are your duties as SM going to entail? Is the show going to be called, or do the operators take their own cues?

 

Edit: too slow!

[timsabre]

I've also found that you can't whisper down walkie talkies like you can with a wired comms system - there's some sort of gate on the mic and the person at the other end just gets a burst of carrier with no sound.

[paulears]

No, that's just rubbish kit. With proper equipment, particularly I've noted Motorola, Icom and Kenwood, their gain is pretty well optimised so that people who bellow into the mic with the plastic on their chin are ok, as are those who cannot be bothered to unclip the mic or radio and just talk from a foot or two away.

 

The annoyances come from squelch set just on the edge so the horrible ssssschhhk noise intrudes, batteries that go flat in the wrong places and this is made worse by the fact that duty cycle on portable equipment is not really able to cope with one radio that is used intensely. If the stage manager has lots of cues, then they need a high capacity battery. On top of this, damn radios need a hand to work them - don't even think of using vox. For a stage manager who perhaps has a pen in one hand or the need to push buttons or turn pages, having to prod a switch is awkward.

 

Radios are good for what they're designed for - and that is not cueing shows in a theatrical manner.

[timtheenchanteruk]

I agree with what has already been said, we have tried the radios route, as an emergency when the coms main station went down mid show, we have all sorts of problem, some due to our building makeup, but we had drop out, people forgetting to push THEN talk, and thos with a vox headset, the vox kicks in swamping eveything ever thime there is a loud point.

 

Just had a tecpro flyer through, and they seem to have a walkie talkie/comms system interface is development, cant see it on their website though.

[themadhippy]

can you still get the ole telephone handsets with carbon microphone and high impedance speaker? cause if you wire the speaker of one headset in series with the mic of the other and a 9v battery you get a very crude coms set

[sleah]

I too work in a school and have considered comms/radios. However, we haven't really found that it's something we need, but that's a different story!

 

I just wonder, is there a radio version of the usual duplex comms systems? I ask, because one reason I haven't gone down the comms route is the damn wire!

 

Doing Junior productions, the setup is quite different to a 'proper' theatre way of working, although we may have a SM of sorts, they tend to be all over the place.

Most backstagers tend not to be in any one place, they can be behind the set (left, centre or right), in a dressing room, down the adjacent corridors etc, so a cabled system is a completley useless solution, not to mention the H&S issue of trailing cables....

We never call shows - the lighting/sound (me!!!) follow the script and sort our own cues. If things don't happen when they should, we busk it and it's rare the audience are aware of problems. Working with the same people who I work with all the time anyway helps!

We could use walkie-talkies to alert others when things go wrong, but to be honest, they've usually sused it anyway and act acordingly - we are rather good at busking <_<

 

Sorry to drift off topic, but it seems there is a gap for a reliable duplex radio system, something with the features of a Tekpro but the reliability and quality of radio mics/ IEMs.

[NeilW]

Sorry to drift off topic, but it seems there is a gap for a reliable duplex radio system, something with the features of a Tekpro but the reliability and quality of radio mics/ IEMs.

 

They exist already - from the likes of Telex Radiocom, HME and Clearcom. They are however significantly more expensive to purchase than standard wired comms or two way radios, but the reason for this becomes clear when you consider that each portable pack is the equivalent of a radio microphone and iem system combined into one small bodypack, which has a number of technical challenges!

 

Whenever possible, use wired comms over wireless, as it's one less thing to go wrong in the middle of the show. For those that do need to be mobile, a professional solution from any of the manufacturers above, installed correctly can be a good option.

 

N.

[timsabre]

Also some people do a licence free 2.4GHz system, ASL is one that comes to mind, but they are still a lot more expensive than the wired ones.

You can DIY if you can find some DECT phones which take headsets.

[paulears]

Sorry for this, but why is money always a problem? You can buy a cheap walkie talkie for a few quid in Lidl, or you can buy a professional quality one for £200. As Mr Hippy said, anybody who has technician in their job title should be able to construct something for a few quid, but the point is that if you are running a programme in a school, and for whatever reason have not got the correct equipment, then maybe you should question if perhaps you shouldn't be doing it?

 

The idea is to train people vocationally to do what people in the industry do. Sure - you can use walkie talkies, but when you teach them physics or chemistry do you only do the experiments you have bodged up the resources for?

 

If you are doing backstage work then provide them the correct tools for the job. If you cannot justify the cost to the powers that be, perhaps mentioning that reliable communications (not just the equipment - the entire process) is necessary for safe working practices will help. NOT being able to shout STOP because somebody forgot to let go of the PTT - or even worse because the radio will not transmit because there is another conversation taking place that you cannot hear on the channel due to CTCSS lockout - is unacceptable.

 

I'm quite aware of how education budgets work - but the budget holder CAN find money for safety and essentials if they know how to do it. When I first got control of a budget it seemed inadequate, but with craftiness it's possible to get extras. Emails are brilliant tools, with the cc feature.

 

If you don't have the four or five hundred quid you need for a few comms packs and cheap headsets, then just send somebody on the SMT a note explaining that you don't think you'll be able to do the planned production because there isn't the budget for the necessary equipment to ensure safety, you've looked at cheaper alternatives, but they all fail the risk assessment, so you're really sorry the production will have to be cancelled. Ask if there is any spare funding from estates or H&S to help fund it.

 

The powers that be then have the choice - THEY have to cancel the event, or they find the money.

 

If you really don't have this money - and to be honest, I can't think why people try to teach things they cannot afford - then don't do it. You're not doing the teaching profession any good, you add to the bad opinion many industry and HE people have of school provision, and you are having to teach the kids bad practice that the minute they get a real job, they'll spot as just what it was - a bodge!

 

I managed to get all sorts of things from the meager budget by playing the system. A new Zarges because the old one, paid for by the department had been damaged by the estates staff who always borrowed it - the new one was half from our budget, half from estates. A wheeled flightcase for the dimmer racks so it could be moved out of the room so as to not injure the dancers, this kind of thing. They won't let you buy toys, but the key is what you do with the toys. If you present cast iron cases, then it looks bad on them to not divert funding - which they can easily do - they just don't want to!

 

Every department are the same, and the crafty ones always get what they want. If you've got a weak manager for your department you're stuck - they'll never cross the powers that be!

[J Pearce]

The school I work at has 12 two way radios for use as cans. Its utterly hopeless. The headsets are the wrong impedance for the radios so the gain structure is all wrong and the radio transmits beeps after transmission which due to the impedance issue are twice as loud as the talking...

 

We've recently bought 3 comms packs and headsets and a PSU at auction following the closure of a local venue. This gives us enough for day to day stuff (1 LX, 1 DSL, 1 DSR (or f/spot), and the PSU has capacity for loads more which we can hire in relatively cheaply for the bigger shows.

 

No comms is better than bad comms. If you really have no budget have 2 2way radios, one backstage and one FOH. Once the message is either backstage or FOH it can be (chinese) whispered or notes passed. This keeps chatter off comms and doesn't encourage dependence on comms.

 

Wireless can be done well, when I worked at Derby Playhouse anyone who moved was on wireless (professional PMR) and anyone who sat still was on wired (Tecpro). As far as I understand the system it used one frequency to transmit wired to the wireless (presumably from a base station) and then another to transmit wireless back onto the wired, so people with wireless could always hear the DSM but only one wireless user could speak at a time. A great system but expensive and complex, and it required user discipline.