Sennheiser MKH 416t/ MKH 416 P48

[Kenny_Black]

I was thinking of buying a shotgun mic, either the mkh 416t or the mkh p48. I am completely new to filmmaking but I want to get great quality sound. I have a crappy cheap camera (canon fs 100) and this is the camera I will be using. I was wondering as I have no clue whatsoever how I would connect it and what else would I need to record sound. could I just plug it straight into the camera? thanks in advance

[paulears]

Well a 416 is going to cost you double to three time the price of the camera for starters!

 

The bad news is that the camera also doesn't have phantom power as in the P48 tag. T Power used to be popular, but has gradually declined in interest. Often, second hand T power 400 series mics go for what look like bargain prices, the price for power adaptors being around £500! example here

 

On top of this, the mic is balanced and even if you have a 48V psu handy, then it's going to have to be converted to 3.5mm - and these adaptors are easy to make but prone to failure.

 

The mic will also need a proper windscreen if you're going to use them outdoors, even in a light breeze. The popular one is a zepplin style housing, and then you put a long haired cover over it. They're too heavy to mount on the camera, being three or four times it's weight! So it means another person or some other solution.

 

You can get very similar, almost as good mics from £70-100, but a 416 is a standard, a bit like the handheld SM58.

 

What do you actually want to do with it? If there's only you - I might be temted to make a mount that allows you to mount the camera to the pistol grip on the mic - never done this, but it would work. Budget wise - you're going to be spending a LOT of money.

 

Have a look at a couple of video clips of cheaper alternatives - here and here

 

I did this a year or so ago when people on another forum were arguing over some mics being great, others not so.

 

If you're into video, the beach clip was recorded on a small format HD camera (a Panasonic very similar to the one you're talking about) with a shotgun mic attached via a bodge of wiring into the socket.

[Shez]

I suspect you might be better off recording sound to a separate recorder (sync'ed via a clapper board or similar) and bringing them together in the edit.

 

The camera doesn't have manual audio gain control so you'll get levels rising & falling constantly which will never sound great. You would also need an adapter of some kind to allow you to connect the XLR out of the mic to the mini-jack in on the camera. Note that this will need more than just a physical conversion - there are powering issues to take care of too.

[Kenny_Black]

thanks for the replies. if im getting this right I would need a power supply and an adapter so im better off going with something cheaper that will go straight to the camera?

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

and is there any shotguns you would recommend that could attach directly to the camera without any power supply other than the camera?

[Bobbsy]

When I was doing location sound professionally, my main mic (before the days of M/S stereo) was a 416. However, my backup was a Rode NTG 2 which has the advantage of being able to be powered by an internal 1.5V battery. On several occasions I used the Rode instead of the 416 and the guys doing the post production mixing never actually noticed the difference, despite the price being an order of magnitude lower (about £160).

 

However, you'll still have to address the issue of an XLR to mini jack adaptor and the nasty AGC on levels.

 

Edited to add: When you say "attach directly to the camera" I hope you're referring to the cable connection and not mounting the mic actually ON the camera. The camera is about the worst place to put a mic--if you truly want "great" sound, you'll need to invest in a fishpole and somebody to hold it, getting the mic as close to the sound source as possible and pointed in the right direction whatever the camera is doing.

 

Bob

[paulears]

what I meant in my post above was that you havea very tiny, lightweight camcorder. You're going to mount a whacking great sausage above it that weighs more than the camera. I don't think your camcorder actually as a hotshoe attachment, but even if it did, the camera is plastic and you'd quite likely break it if you did mount the shotgun on it.

 

Bob summed it up really - shotguns need 'pointing'. Imagine you have the camera zoomed out, but the subject is off to the edge of the frame. With a shotgun, you'll need to aim it at the person, not the empty space in between. I picked the seashore clip I linked to to show the difference in what they sound like. The camera mics are actually quite nice sounding, but they're kind of wide - the shotgun mic is much narrower, which gives you more 'reach' - BUT it has to be aimed. At the most basic level, a power supply, cables and a cheap shotgun is going to be £100. You also really need to be able to hear what the mic can hear, or how do you know what it's picking up. Does the camera have a headphone socket you can use.

 

Probably best to tell us what you're going to be doing with it, as then we can give specifics.

 

Just a thought though. You did realise we're really a backstage and event type forum - we're not a general video forum, so most of our comments come from the use of video in our industry, not weddings or things like that.

[Cal]

If you are starting off I would suggest a shotgun mic with a wider pick up area.

 

The 416(p48) is alot tighter than the ME66 and while a better microphone is often preffered by many people believing the more money the easier to use they can be harder to to handle for someone new to sound recording due to on and off axis sound etc. the best description I have heared is that the 416 is the sound equivilant of a scalple.

 

My suggestion is for people who are new to booming or anticipating a lot of camera mounted recording use the ME66 or Rodes NTG3 (IMO better than the ME66 but slightly less warm than the 416 although easier for unexperienced hands as it is smoother on off axis sound). The ME66 also has the oppertunity to replace the capsules for omni or cardioid pattern heads as well as being internally powered by a battery rather than phantom power.

 

personally I use a NTG3's or NT55's if the room is echoey, however for new booming and camera mounts I would still suggest a ME66 as from my last use (all be it live event rather than booming) it is both lighter and has a slightly wider pick up pattern.

 

Look at Rodes range of stereo and mono camera mics aswell, I unfortunately cannot give any advice on these as my experience is live events and boom.