How to make a logo in fire aprox 3m diameter

[Philus]

Hi,

 

I have this video project on the go where we want the grand finale shot to be the sports team logo drawn out in fire (shot at night). We have been donated a safe place to film this by the fire service and they will be on hand to put it all out after however they were unsure as of the best way to draw the logo.

 

We were thinking rope or twisted sheeting soaked in parafin or kerosene and then draw the logo out with this. I've heard that mixing parafin with kerosene provides the best combo between clean burning and long lasting flame is this true? We want the logo to be set alight at the bottom then be able to see the flame travel around the logo, taking about 5 seconds to complete it into fully alight all round, we would then like it to burn for quite a couple of minutes so we can get some cool shots. We don't want the flames to be too high or big maybe 15-30 cm high max. The logo is relatively complex so the easier it is to draw accurately the better, petrol or other liquids poored around a drawn logo would just make a mess right?

 

Does anyone have any comments on our ideas, if we are going hidously wrong or any other suggestions of how it could be done better?

 

PS I know we can mock it in a graphics program but its just not the same and we havent got the movie budget and time (or talent) to make it look just a realistic.

 

Also do you know where Kerosene and Parafin are available without ordering huge quantities?

 

Thanks for your help

 

Phil

[mrcog]

A copy of the logo would be a help to members so we know how complicated it is... I can think of different ways to produce different logos with different complexities but I'm going to leave it to those who have professional knowledge with this...

 

James

[kerry davies]

PM, email or call me and I will explain. http://www.showmaster.org.uk/old/pages/recent-events.html

The phoenix picture is of a 20 foot wide 25 foot high sculpture so 3X3 should be relatively simple. The more complex the logo the bigger it needs to be to get the detail. Large areas of "shading" tend to destroy the image as well.

 

I won't go into details here as it isn't something to just have a lark with. Last time I told a schoolboy how to make a flamethrower from common kitchen equipment his headmaster had rude words with me! He is in Afghanistan dismantling IED's nowadays, ho hum.

[the kid]

The way I have seen before and done before is paper rope soaked in paraffin and put through layflat to keep dry. Then tied using metal twist ties on to grid weld. This is then lifted on to a scaff frame. I can't recall how we fixed it on to the frame though.

 

I have seen some funky colours done as well, I believe certain chemicals can make burning colours.

[Jivemaster]

Let's see the logo! I've done fire rope writing before. They need to be big and bold and simple to work well.

[Philus]

Right here is the logo and the green line one is what we're planning on making into fire, we'd like to light it at the bottom of the tail on the S and then it progress up the logo, the red line is where we'd like to have a link which would mean the rest of the text lights before the top but then that red line goes out instantly so it does its job of transmiting the flame to the text then dissapears, what would you reccomend for that job?

 

The logo is going to be drawn out onto the floor and we're gonna film it from a cherry picker so theres no worrys about attaching it to framework and standing it up or whatever.

 

 

 

http://www.cardiffdevils.com/DevilsWebsiteImages/CardiffDevilsLogo.png http://www.clearcutvision.co.uk/img/outlineforfire.jpg

 

 

Cheers for your help.

Phil

[boswell]

we're gonna film it from a cherry picker .

 

Through the smoke?

[kerry davies]

I have PM'ed Phil but for others, it isn't a good idea for these things to be filmed from above.

The major point is that the view will be obscured by smoke/heat haze (Boswell) and the minor point being that it wouldn't do the camera much good. The risk of setting fire to the cherry picker or cameraman is something that the nitpicky safety conscious might assess but then they shouldn't be playing with fire, should they?

Even flame-resistant hydraulic fluids can burn when emulsified such as from a pinhole created by a spark. The idea of setting fire to something based on a drawing on the floor below it also gave me flashbacks of flaming tarmac in a school playground which I hope never to see again! I still remember the paperwork.

 

It is great fun but not to be messed about with, like all pyro, and has environmental as well as safety concerns to be considered.

[Philus]

We we're planning on having the cherry picker set back and up wind so that we wont be in the heat or the smoke, filming it on a 45 degree angle rather than directly above.

 

The fire service have given us a special "Burn Zone" to do it in which they do all sorts of fire testing etc in so theres no worries about the condition of the floor, they will also be on hand to put it out.

 

How much smoke does something like this create? I was expecting these types of fuels to be more clean burning?

 

Thanks

Phil

[Jivemaster]

Done with propane, it will be smoke free but you will have a big pipework to make and drill and fix to design at large cost.

 

Done wth meths the flame will be clean burning and probably very pale so maybe an additive for colour -green is easy!

done with petrol, kerosene or diesel the flame will be increasingly hot and smokey.

 

Laid out horizontally on the floor the fire will spread slowly so I'd use a single lighting point linked with quickmatch to several points on the design, but I do fireworks too and have QM in the store, (And it's not available retail).

 

The paper rope that is usually used costs about £2.50 a metre and is one time only - it burns away! I have used natural fibre washing line smaller and much cheaper. B&Q was my source.

 

If you are going to want a reshoot then you will have to research fire poi and jugling suppliers for a fire retardant rope that they sometimes use, or buy lots of paper rope!

 

Do make sure that there are several cameras rolling when you do the shot it's a difficult and expensive reshoot

 

Do be realistic about the costs please. You seem to have the location and fire cover sorted, but remember that a gallon of petroleum will cost £6 - 7 and the rope will be up to £3 a metre. Whatever angle you use you will need to hold the burning base shape in rope and cheap rope does have a mind of it's own so you will need to support it in the shape that you want. Usually this is done using a wire mesh frame and short wires to hold the rope. IMO the expenses of this shoot could be £100 without paying time at a professional effects rate.

 

Usually the design appears out of blackness as the mesh is dark and you can see through it to a dark sky. Laid in the floor you will see the floor lit by the flame. You will need to look carefully at camera settings to get the effect that you want.

[adam2]

Parafin and kerosene are generally accepted to be the same stuff.

Parafin is the common UK term, more often called kerosene overseas.

 

SMALL parafin flames are bright yellow and give very little smoke, large flames tend to produce a lot of smoke which would impair filming.

Natural fibre rope soaked in the fuel is one of the best ways, washing line or sash cord is very cheap.

I suggest forming the design of fuel soaked rope attached to a wire mesh panel, slightly raised from the ground in order to allow plenty of air and cleaner burning. Paint the mesh black in order to render it inconspicuos.

If the flame from thin rope is not large or bright enough, then consider two or more pieces, spaced an inch or two apart, so as to allow air in between. This should give a cleaner brighter effect than a single large flame.

 

Carry out small scale trials to determine the optimum spacing.

 

If the surface on which this is to be done is light coloured, then it might be worth painting it black, since presumably the flaming design is to be filmed, not light reflected from the surface under it.