xme Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 hello everyone! I have two scanners which I mostly use for dance shows. The problem is that while they are 150W and pretty bright in dark, when I turn the stage lights on you can hardly see their lightbeams. So I am thinking to upgrade the light source. Thankfully all the effects (incl. dimmer, strobe etc.) are mechanical. I am thinking to remove the current bulb and install a completely autonomous electrical circuit which I will control manually with a switch. I have seen some moving heads that use 60W leds. Does anyone know where I can find hese kind of LEDs? Or does anyone have any other ideas? Many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 When looking to change the source in a fixture you have to think about a lot more than just power to it. One big issue you may run into is heat, how will the unit cope with the heat produced by the new source... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overhyped Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Also, you might have to "trick" the fixture into thinking everything is normal, be it a dummy load or something more clever if it's a discharge lamp.. Then there's the annoying insurance thing - If you've modified something and it goes boom, and causes damage to other peoples property, then are you in a good position? I know the feeling, I've done this kind of thing with data projectors, and I won't be doing it again! ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Easy solution? Sell the disco tat and buy/hire something more appropriate for the job. Bit blunt, I know, but basically the only way you're going to get what you want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xme Posted August 12, 2010 Author Share Posted August 12, 2010 thanks for the responses, Of course I 've thought about the heating issue, and that's why I want to install LED which has minimum heat emissions and thousands of hours of lamp life. The problem is that I can't find any high power 60W LED, Does anyone know where I can find such LED? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Your problem is going to be tricky to overcome - the optics (such as they'll be) will have been set up to make the most (one would hope) of the standard lamp. If you sustitute that lamp for a whole different type of light source I suspect you'll get a lot of headaches and likely very little success at getting a decent output - level OR quality... Hence my brusque suggestion earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieR Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Of course I 've thought about the heating issue, and that's why I want to install LED which has minimum heat emissions ... Actually, you'ld be surprised about the amount of heat that LED units can put out. Many of the higher power LED units use large heatsinks or fans to manage this. Once the source is enclosed in a 'lamphouse' of sorts then the problem is multiplied. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 You don't get single 60W LEDs commercially. So you'll have to use multiple units and combine the light. This is a 6W White LED, it costs £25... ...then you need a heatsink, one for each LED at £45... ...and then some optics. These particular ones are £14 each... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 The actual optics in a budget scanner are pretty basic, so to make it work you're going to have to find LEDs that are not only bright, but are the same size or less than the filament in the original lamp. If the area of the lightsource is bigger, then the gobo edges will blur even more - and sharp gobos are not that sharp with simple optics. I doubt you'll be able to increase light levels, and probably they'll go down. After all, there are very few LED fixtures that are truly bright yet, at almost any price point. If the 150W fixtures are not bright enough, you're going to have go up considerably in light levels - and the physical size will almost certain scupper the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xme Posted August 12, 2010 Author Share Posted August 12, 2010 I found this on ebay. It may work, what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 It may work, what do you think?It won't. The light comes out from too large an area. You'll not be able to focus it down to make gobos work. It'll work fine (ish) inside a frensel or other soft wash source but not as a beam unit. And you'll still need to cool it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound In Gloucestershire Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 please listen to what everyone has says, this will not work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xme Posted August 12, 2010 Author Share Posted August 12, 2010 Guys, I 've posted the photos of the inside of the fixture. picture 2 this area has dimensions LxWxH: 8x6.5x9 cm picture 1 the opening has a diameter of approximately 2cm I found on ebay this 100W LED and this driver. The dimensions of the LED are 55X40X4mm and I can fit it easily inside the reflector. I also measured the temperature of the bulb and the reflector after 30min. use and it was about 80-116 Celcius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceecrb1 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I agree and will also express the same opinion.. I repair all the moving fixtures in the company... and the number one fault for a fixture which has a lamp power down mid-gig... is usually HEAT.a fan fails, fans and filters are dirty.. fixture is up in the roof where its much hotter than where the audience is etc etc.. These fixtures run just on the limit of what is its temperature margin, and usually even have thermal sensors which cut off power to the lamp when it over heats... taking a 150 fixture and stuffing in a 250w lamp (for example), even if were physically able to fit.. just wont keep cool long enough.. As for changing to leds.. the optics of a robot are all setup for that lightsource in that lamp at that location.. have you seen some screws near the lamp area for adjusting the lamp position and depth within the fixture? many fixtures have this... and moving them just a half turn will make a huge difference, so were talking mm here... Again, sorry its bad news.. but in my honest opinion, if you carry on with the project, its just a ticket to ride the "fail train" EDIT, just seen your last post.. now dissable the cooling fans and measure the temperature ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LXbydesign Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Mate, just sell the disco toys and invest in something more powerful. Its the only way. Besides, as a technical venue manager, I would not allow modified electrical items like that to be switched on in my venue anyway , for reasons listed above. There are plenty of decent scanners out there now. Just forget the 'disco-dave' rubbish at Maplins et al and go for a known supplier like Robe or Martin Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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