Line 6 Digital Radio Microphones

[Tivoli Phil]

Hi guys,

 

So an interesting thing caught my eye rectently: Line 6 XD-V70

 

It appears that line 6 have made an affordable digital radio mic operating in the 2.4GHz range. It all sounds very clever. But the thing that really interested me was in the description of the mic sound. Apparently line 6 have incorperated their modeling principles from their guitar amps into it. It claims to have setting based on an SM58, beta 58, Audix OM5 and various others. This has me rather intrigued. I was wondering if anyone had had a chance to play with one yet. Because at £430 a unit they aren't a bad solution to all this ofcom malarkey.

 

Cheers,

 

Phil

 

[timtheenchanteruk]

depends on where you are using it, 2.4 Ghz is a little too overcrowded IMO for using for radio mics, I'm guessing that that's the opinion of the other manufacturers as well, otherwise they would have developed something similar.

[MarkPAman]

I'd have thought the same, but, Line 6 seem to know what they're doing with their other stuff. I'm sure they will not have spent many £$£$£$ developing something that's not going to work.

[dbuckley]

The mic modeling aspect is interesting.

 

Antari (the Autotune people) brought out a modeler which could convert the sound of a mic, so you could plug in a SM58 and tell the box you wanted it to sound like a SM57, and it would do the math in real time.

 

No-one ever used it for that purpose; they were more intrigued with how you could misuse it to get a new sound...

[paulears]

Have you seen these?

 

I've got a lot of time for the Line-6 company, having one of their modelling guitars. They've developed a digital 2.4GHz radio mic system and the handhelds have the modelling system built in, so they mimic the characteristics of these microphones:

Shure® SM58®

Shure® Beta 58A

Sennheiser® e 835

Audio-Technica® AE4100

Audix® OM5

Electro-Voice® N/D767

 

I've no idea about the electronics, but if the modelling is as good as their guitars, and the RF system proves effective - these could be very useful tools for us.

 

Anyone else know any more infomation?

P

[Mark Payne]

The bit that is interesting me is the non-compander digital.

 

I want to move over to wireless systems measurement but I cannot justify the cost of the Electrosonics kit just to to remove the cable from my measurement mic.

 

So when these become available I will be buying a beltpack system to put in my toolkit. Its cheap enough to lose into hirestock if its not linear enough for test and measurement.

 

Bring it on....

 

M

[mackerr]

Have you seen these?

 

I've got a lot of time for the Line-6 company, having one of their modelling guitars. They've developed a digital 2.4GHz radio mic system and the handhelds have the modelling system built in, so they mimic the characteristics of these microphones:

Shure® SM58®

Shure® Beta 58A

Sennheiser® e 835

Audio-Technica® AE4100

Audix® OM5

Electro-Voice® N/D767

 

I've no idea about the electronics, but if the modelling is as good as their guitars, and the RF system proves effective - these could be very useful tools for us.

 

Anyone else know any more infomation?

P

 

Mic modelling only deals with the tonality, an important reason to use different mics is the pickup pattern, which can't be changed by modelling.

 

IIRC the origin of these mics was with another company. At one time I believe they were marketed by Sennheiser. Line 6 is continuing to expand the line and add features, but I think the basic digital mic system came to them complete.

 

The 4ms of latency may be an issue for people who are already pushing the latency boundries with digital desks and processing.

 

Despite the SSFH system congestion in the 2.4GHz range may be an issue in some venues.

 

Mac

[J Pearce]

If you had the right setup of raw capsules you could model the pickup pattern relatively easily. A fig8 and an omni as coincidental as possible would give you most conventional pickup patterns; and only basic phase reversal and mixing are needed to achieve this.

[mackerr]

If you had the right setup of raw capsules you could model the pickup pattern relatively easily. A fig8 and an omni as coincidental as possible would give you most conventional pickup patterns; and only basic phase reversal and mixing are needed to achieve this.

 

Do you think that's what's in the Line 6 mic?

 

Mac

[J Pearce]

Not at all. My comment was to say that it could be achieved (and in fact such mics are often used in studio land).

[mackerr]

Not at all. My comment was to say that it could be achieved (and in fact such mics are often used in studio land).

 

Multi transducer variable pattern mics like the Calrec Soundfield have been around for many years. I'm sure with enough DSP power combined with the analog controls already in them many patterns and tonalities might be simulated. So far those mics have been fairly large, so the physical characteristics of the mic might make it impossible to duplicate the nearfield characteristics of a handheld vocal mic. The pattern that exists 6", or 24", from the mic may not be the same, nor have the same tonal characteristics, as at 1/2".

 

The mic modeling of the Line 6 wireless is an interesting option, I just don't think it is a substitute for the mic choices that may be available elsewhere.

 

Mac

[dboomer]

depends on where you are using it, 2.4 Ghz is a little too overcrowded IMO for using for radio mics, I'm guessing that that's the opinion of the other manufacturers as well, otherwise they would have developed something similar.

 

Never say never ... but it's highly unlikely that anything in the 2.4G ISM band will ever interfere with audio when using a XD-V wireless. The combination of FHSS and data coding and distribution we call PDP simply isn't bothered by wifi and the like. You would literally have to have an AP sitting right on top of an XD-V receiver to cause a problem. Moving them about 2m apart and it is a complete non issue.

 

The mic modeling of the Line 6 wireless is an interesting option, I just don't think it is a substitute for the mic choices that may be available elsewhere.

 

True the pickup patterns do not change. But I expect that having a cardioid b58 will be a benefit for some users. If you don't choose to use the models you can simply screw on wireless capsules from Shure, Heil, Audix (with an adaptor ring) and EV.

 

The bit that is interesting me is the non-compander digital.

 

I want to move over to wireless systems measurement but I cannot justify the cost of the Electrosonics kit just to to remove the cable from my measurement mic.

 

I have tried it and it works great with the beltpack unit. You will have to use a measuring mic that does not require phantom (like the Earthworks M30bx) or use an external power supply as the beltpack supplies bias voltage but not phantom power.

 

 

btw ... you should see them soon. The shipment is in route.

 

Don Boomer

Line 6, inc.

[paulears]

Don, we really appreciate this info. As you might have noticed in another topic, many of us, me included are going to get some compensation for handing in our old kit to the Government, and my current thinking is that I might use the opportunity to dip a toe in the water, with 4 or 6 of these when the payments come through. The benefits seem to be there, and realistically, I've been happy with Trantec and Sennheiser, but maybe this is just a good excuse to try something different.

 

I've been looking at which items of kit I have in stock get used the most, which have paid for themselves and which perhaps don't need to be replaced straight away - and handhelds at the moment are the ones more important. I like the idea of just having access to different 'sounds' - I guess I'll set a favourite and rarely change, but the possiblity looks good.

 

It's nice to have the manufacturers perspective on these things - thanks.

paul

[boswell]

I’m certainly attracted to the XD-V70L and I don’t doubt Line 6 ability to get around the WiFi problems, but my concerns are the ability of 2.4Ghz to get through the actors body mass.

If we have a person who is ‘Well Built’ ie overweight and wears the beltpack in the small of the back, will it kill the signal?

100mtr range is line of sight, what will it be if it has to go through a 20stone actor as well? I’ve had CH69 G2 equipment drop out with a well built sweaty actor at 20mtrs (solved by using a pair of yagi).

Other points are that the user manuals are simplified, no real detail and the advanced guide is not available on the website.

Things I would like to know are, can you inhibit the ‘Mute’ button?

Can you run 12 systems off one pair of aerials just by daisy chaining them? (I have emailed them to line 6)

I think the best idea is let other people find the cons and wait for the comments, then buy in 2012 if they are OK.

[boswell]

found the answers,

you can run 12 RXs from one pair of aerials and you can lock down the TX including the Mute and power off functions