mikeroberts87 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Hi everyone, I play in a 3 piece function band and just recently we have started being asked to do much larger functions then we have done in the past audience size around 300. Currently we have a Beheringer PMP3000 desk going into 2x 8 ohm NJD 300 watt heads and although its fine for pub and smaller venues its doesn't have that edge for larger halls etc. I need a bit of advice from anyone on what to do to achieve more power and a louder sound. Budget £550 max Options I have looked at, Mackie Thump Th 15a's I know they have a bad rep as there really Tapco's but at 400 Watts aside we'd have more power and then for larger gigs could use the amped desk and the NJD's aswell, Then for smaller use the NJD's as monitors. Mackie SRM450's (second hand) Real mackies! but have overheating problems? (same principle for using NJD's as monitors or FOH as well as the mackies) Adlib 151's (second hand) GREAT speakers but as there passive and 8 ohms are they really going to give me any more volume? If anyone can help that would be great all advice will be appreciated the bands left it to me as a technician but speakers aren't my Forte! and I don't want to spend over £500 and not notice a difference for the better! Cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkfs9 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Dont want to put a downer on you but you are up againt it here. A funtion band needs a good PA and you will be playing in ballrooms marques ect. Either rent in for the bigger gigs, or sell what you have and buy / invest in some decent equipment that will do you justice. Whats the saying buy once cry once. A good sound will help you get repeat bookings and help you recoupe the money.Our smallest function rig is a 4ooo watt amp and two qw4 full range cabs. This is a minimum set up in my opinion.Subs added for bigger shows. www.paradoxband.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeroberts87 Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 Hmm I was afraid of that answer, unfortunately we just don't have the cash at the minute or the van or room to store it! Thanks though dually noted. What about second hand gear? I.E trying to find a rig tops and subs, slightly smaller then QW4s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 OK, let's knock something on the head. What you don't necessarily need is more amplifier power. Just saying "you need 2kW" to get a decent sound is meaningless. What you do want is more volume and there are two ways to achieve this... 1) Bigger amplifiers (and speakers if needed) or... 2) More efficient speakers Your current speakers may only be spec'd at 95dB/1W/1m. Change those to a pair spec'd at 98dB/1W/1m and it's the same effect as doubling you amplifier power. Pick a pair spec'd at 101dB and it's the same as quadrupling your amp. However, your amp looks under-rated. If your speakers are 300W 8Ohm jobs then you'd normally want to drive those from a 450W amp. The PMP3000 only does 215W into 8. Do you know which model of speakers you have? It'd help us a lot to advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark M Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Hmm I was afraid of that answer, unfortunately we just don't have the cash at the minute or the van or room to store it! Thanks though dually noted. What about second hand gear? I.E trying to find a rig tops and subs, slightly smaller then QW4s Hire might be the best way for you. Have a ring round the local hire places and see what they can do. Some may even be able to deliver for you, at a cost of course, but if your getting paid to do a gig youve got to ensure you can fulfill that gig especially in the sound department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolley1466 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Hmm I was afraid of that answer, unfortunately we just don't have the cash at the minute or the van or room to store it! Thanks though dually noted. What about second hand gear? I.E trying to find a rig tops and subs, slightly smaller then QW4s How about looking at some finance deals on equipment? For second hand gear see this thread for links to second hand gear and also check out SSE's ex-hire stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Keep what you have and use it for gigs within it's capabilities. Find a local ish sound engineer with a fair size system and hire them as needed. Really good kit isn't cheap also it takes time to set up well and skilled operators help with this, while you are readying yourself for the gig. A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. Remember that bigger gigs need a bigger fee to cover the larger costs of actually producing the actual gig -extra sound, extra lights, extra power and distro etc, Don't be "had" by an offer to do prestige (ie big) gigs for your normal pub price otherwise you will look bad and spoil your own reputation. First find a sound engineer that you trust with your sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haymere Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Keep what you have and use it for gigs within it's capabilities. Find a local ish sound engineer with a fair size system and hire them as needed. Really good kit isn't cheap also it takes time to set up well and skilled operators help with this, while you are readying yourself for the gig. A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on. Remember that bigger gigs need a bigger fee to cover the larger costs of actually producing the actual gig -extra sound, extra lights, extra power and distro etc, Don't be "had" by an offer to do prestige (ie big) gigs for your normal pub price otherwise you will look bad and spoil your own reputation. First find a sound engineer that you trust with your sound. You havnt stated where you are, if you do members on here maybe able to suggest contacts in your area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 In a small hall some of the live sound of your band will be heard by the gueats, as the halls get bigger the real sound gets less! SO you may well need a different micing/pickup regime to sound like the same band, whch is part of the reason I suggested a sound engineer -to go to the back of the hall and listen. I remember seeing a band I then knew playing a festival stand with their usual rig. The band was largely sax and female vocals, their usual rig boosted the vocals but at 25m in the open the sax was lost completely and it didn't sound like them, and didn't sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeroberts87 Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 Cheers for all the suggestions, The NJD's are NJ3000 (NJ531's) Were based in Liverpool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMitchell Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 +1 what Brian said. Allowing for some of those watts to be dissipated as heat, the NJD boxes will probably give you ~120dB/1m if powered correctly, i.e. with an amplifier delivering 1.5-2.0 times the RMS of the cabs. I'd be looking to pick up some more efficient, branded boxes (and a bigger power amplifier), if you keep your eyes peeled and buy wisely you may do that within (OK, perhaps a little over) your budget figure. But ignore anyone whom straight away tells you you need speakers with higher wattage or that you need however many "k" to cover however many hundred people. This is a common misconception amongst those that tend to brag about the size of their sound system, as though it represents the size of their manhood :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkfs9 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 This is a Funtion band here not a wk end pub band. A certain level of PA will be expected in certain venues. You have either got the equipment or you haven't. If not you must hire it in. Nothing to do with man hood. I really don't understand that comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMitchell Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 @mkfs9 - please edit your post as you have mis-quoted my text to include your reply - thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 This is a Funtion band here not a wk end pub band. A certain level of PA will be expected in certain venues. You have either got the equipment or you haven't. If not you must hire it in. Nothing to do with man hood. I really don't understand that comment. I understood the comment to mean that "turning up with a multi kW amp doesn't mean you have a loud and powerful PA. Buying good quality, efficent loudspeakers with correctly sized amps will do the job properly. Those who state that you need at least x kW for a job are at best misguided and at worse enacting the audio equivalent of sticking a cucumber down your trousers and smiling at the ladies". But I could have read it wrong... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMitchell Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Nail on the head, Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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