New set-up advice

[audiohero]

Hi Guys,

 

I've been doing a fair bit of research on this forum for a few weeks to try and understand what I need for my proposed new lighting rig.

 

It's for a covers/function band (again!) where we require a foot controller on stage to operate a small rig of LED PARs. We have a laptop with us at every gig so we're going to go down the software route.

 

I've tried quite a few software programs and I've finally settled on Freestyler for (what seems so far) it's ease of programming and it's ability to accept midi input.

 

My proposed set-up is:

Freestyler on the laptop (Windows 7)

4x EUROLITE LED PAR 64 RGB 10 MM cans (http://www.thomann.de/gb/euroliteled_par_6..._10_mm_leds.htm)

Roland GFC-50 MIDI foot controller (http://www.roland.co.uk/products/productdetails.aspx?p=60)

USB-DMX cable (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT)

DMX connector cables

MIDI-USB lead

 

I plan to expand the lighting rig with more LED PAR cans over the next year or so (as funds allow).

 

What I would like to know is if this set-up will work, is there anything that I've missed out, and are there any alternatives I should be looking at for my budget (£500)?

[stillwave]

...My proposed set-up is:

Freestyler on the laptop (Windows 7)...

 

...USB-DMX cable (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT)

 

I believe this particular USB-DMX adapter is only for win XP or earlier. a friend of mine had lots of problems in getting it to work with vista (& Win 7 can't be any better)

 

alternatively Chamsys make a 'demo' version of a USB-DMX dongle, for £10. a recent Blueroom topic on it

 

 

Regards,

 

Ben Wainwright

[audiohero]

Thanks for the reply. I did stumble on that post a couple of days ago but my main problem is that I just can't get on with the MagicQ software.

 

Are there any other cheaper DMX dongle/interfaces that will work with Windows 7?

[Dj Dunc]

Theres the entec dongle which is AFAIK around £50.

[paulears]

You can't get on with Magic-Q? Why not, it's so much better than freestyler? Much more powerful and from my perspective - not even in the same class.

[KidRay]

Thanks for the reply. I did stumble on that post a couple of days ago but my main problem is that I just can't get on with the MagicQ software.

 

Are there any other cheaper DMX dongle/interfaces that will work with Windows 7?

 

I can sympathise! I still haven't got to grips with Magic-Q yet. I bought the £10 dongle but it won't work with my current OS (Mac OS 10.5) so I either need to upgrade to 10.6 or wait till the full release of the current beta version of Magic-Q which I believe will work with OS 10.5. I did have a play with a previous version of Magic-Q and the learning curve was very steep for someone who hasn't seen the business end of a lighting desk for 20 years or so.

 

I also play in covers bands and have 8 of the Eurolite PAR 64 10mm fixtures, at the moment controlled by a cheap controller (Stairville DMX-Master 1) which is horrible!

 

I've been through the same process as you looking for suitable control systems and the product that is top of my shopping list is DMXIS from Enttec. Check out the videos tab for how it all works.

 

It looks simple to use, flexible and powerful, and is designed for precisely the application that we want to use it for. All you need to add is a simple footswitch ( a sustain pedal or similar) and you can control the software with click, click and hold and double click commands (which can be customised in the software to do different things depending on your requirements).

 

The Eurolites are not bad, the beam angle is quite narrow, so it can be problem in small venues getting them far enough away from the band to get a decent spread, especially with only 4. Another option worth considering is the American DJ Mega Bar Pro, for a slightly different look. You may prefer the traditional look of the parcans, but I quite like the look of a pair, or 4 of these used in an upright position.

[audiohero]

You can't get on with Magic-Q? Why not, it's so much better than freestyler? Much more powerful and from my perspective - not even in the same class.

 

 

I use software at work that operates in a similar way to Freestyler but I've never even been near a lighting desk, so Magic-Q seems like a very steep leaning curve to me whereas I got to grips with Freestyler in about 30 mins, patching the fixtures in, setting up my own sceens and chase sequences and assigning MIDI information all seemed very easy to do.

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

...

The Eurolites are not bad, the beam angle is quite narrow, so it can be problem in small venues getting them far enough away from the band to get a decent spread, especially with only 4. Another option worth considering is the American DJ Mega Bar Pro, for a slightly different look. You may prefer the traditional look of the parcans, but I quite like the look of a pair, or 4 of these used in an upright position.

 

 

I'm hoping that in 3 or 4 months time we'll have enough money to get another 8 of the LED cans, although, I do quite like the look of those American DJ Mega Pro Bars, so I may get 2 of those and 4 LED cans instead. If those bars are mounted upright on the speaker poles are likely to be too close to the band to get a decent spread?

[KidRay]

I'm hoping that in 3 or 4 months time we'll have enough money to get another 8 of the LED cans, although, I do quite like the look of those American DJ Mega Pro Bars, so I may get 2 of those and 4 LED cans instead. If those bars are mounted upright on the speaker poles are likely to be too close to the band to get a decent spread?

 

Good question, and one I don't have the answer to at the moment. That's exactly what I intended to do with them, with maybe another two at the back of the stage, so I need to find somewhere that has some in stock for a demo. The beam angle is 30 degrees according to the blurb, which is slightly less than the quoted beam angle for the eurolites of 36 degrees. How accurate this is I'm not sure as there is a very soft edge to the beam and the intensity drops off considerably towards the edge on both fixtures. The budget LED stuff is all pretty similar in this regard, although there are some LED floods around with a beam angle of 120 degrees or so. Moving a little higher up the scale, the fixtures using the 3W Tri LEDs seem to have a beam angle of around 40 degrees. They are more expensive, the American DJ bar with the 3W LEDs (Mega Bar Tri) is about twice the price of the Mega Bar Pro, but will be significantly brighter, having 18 x 3W LEDs as opposed to 27 x1W.

 

A mixture of parcans and bars, and maybe even a flood or two, will give you a flexible solution. Incidentally, have you considered the flat versions of the LED cans, which are pretty much the same as the parcans but without the bulky body. From a transport point of view these make a lot of sense.

[audiohero]

... have you considered the flat versions of the LED cans, which are pretty much the same as the parcans but without the bulky body. From a transport point of view these make a lot of sense.

 

 

They do make a lot of sense as regards transport but I just don't like the look of them for out the front of the stage. I may consider getting some of them for the sides or back though.

[KidRay]

I've got my tape measure out and checked; the eurolite parcans give you (roughly) a spread of about 750mm at a throw of 1.5m and a spread of 1.5m at a throw of 3m. I imagine the Mega Bar Pro is slightly less than this, but remember that the fixture is 1m wide (or high) to start with.

[Brian]

I've got my tape measure out and checked; the eurolite parcans give you (roughly) a spread of about 750mm at a throw of 1.5m...

So about 28 degrees then.

 

Quick rule of thumb...

 

If your beam diameter is 1/4 of your throw then your spread is about 14 degrees.

If your beam diameter is 1/3 of your throw then your spread is about 19 degrees.

If your beam diameter is 1/2 of your throw then your spread is about 26 degrees.

If your beam diameter is 2/3 of your throw then your spread is about 36 degrees.

If your beam diameter is 1/1 of your throw then your spread is about 50 degrees.

 

...anyone recognise those beam angles?

[Matthew Robinson]

If your beam diameter is 1/4 of your throw then your spread is about 14 degrees.

If your beam diameter is 1/3 of your throw then your spread is about 19 degrees.

If your beam diameter is 1/2 of your throw then your spread is about 26 degrees.

If your beam diameter is 2/3 of your throw then your spread is about 36 degrees.

If your beam diameter is 1/1 of your throw then your spread is about 50 degrees.

 

...anyone recognise those beam angles?

 

They'd be the angles that S4's come in, wouldn't they?